As a BSN student in clinicals it seems like many floor nurses are "mean spirited".

Nurses General Nursing

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Here are a few examples that I've experienced or witnessed during my time in clinicals:

1. It is common that I or one of my fellow students will ask a qustion, or simply say hello, good morning ect to a staff nurse, LPN, or CNA and get absolutely NO reply. In the case of a question I've even asked several times on occassion only to be treated as if I wasn't even there (to me being absolutely ignored is almost worse than saying they won't, can't, or don't have time to answer a question).

2. On another occasion I was accused of deliberately not giving a bed bath by a CNA. In fact, I had made a mistake. I was the "student charge" nurse and when I returned to my patients room (after performing "treatments" for fellow students) the door was closed. The REAL charge nurse said that the CNA was giving a bath to a patient so I should wait to enter (unfortunately I should have asked which patient, but didn't). Then when I did enter the room (after helping another student give a bed bath down the hall) there was a used bed bath pan on the table, and two wet towels there also. My patient was semi-comatose (CV accident) and was sleeping in any case so I couldn't ask him. I assumed that my patient had been bathed and went on assisting other students. At the end of the day when I was leaving the CNA wanted to know which student had room eleven. When I said it was me, she got right in my face and said "if you aren't going to do a bath then you should tell someone and if you can't do that then you have no business being a nurse!" This was in front of my instructor. I apologized and offered to do the bath right then, but was refused the opportunity. The next day I was assigned to a patient in the ICU stepdown unit. At first the RN who was also in the room (assigned to another patient also in the room) was very pleasant we even made various "small talk". Then the CNA who yelled at me the day before stopped by and they went into the hall to talk.

After that the RN who had been pleasant became silent, she wouldnt' converse with me anymore. What is more when I went to give my patient a bed bath she criticised me at every step. She said I was too slow ("no hospital will ever hire you if you can't go faster than that"), and then criticised how I washed the perineal area saying I was being too gentle and not using enough water. When I went to change the water (as we are trained to do in school) she said I shouldn't leave my patients bed side during a procedure (I put the rails back up). I didn't say anything except that I was doing my best and would try harder. Finally, she accused me of deliberately doing a poor job so as to cause her to take over the procedure (which she did) and suggested that I should consider an alternative career. At this I nearly broke down in tears and went to see my instructor who re-assinged me to a different patient. However, the nurse in question walked into the room and said she wanted to talk to my instructor in private. She accused me of "patient abandonment" for leaving my patient (when I went to see my instructor and was reassigned). My instructor said she was probably mad at me because the CNA in question was written up for the way she confronted me on the previous day. Honestly, it seems like maybe 25% of the staff nurses (and I'm being conservative in my estimate) would just as soon we were not there. This is the first time I've ever experienced anything this dramatic and it's been bothering me for a few days now to the point I can hardly sleep. I swear, that IF I make it through school that I will go out of my way to be nice to furture nursing students who are doing there best!

Specializes in Hemodialysis, Home Health.
I responded to this thread this morning, after 12 hour night shift and perhaps did not make myself that clear. I really want to make the point that this problem in nursing SO needs to be addressed!

I also wanted to add that it is not just "floor nurses" I have seen this type of behaviour in ICU, dialysis etc.

I believe this issue should be part of every nurses' education. I had never heard of horizontal violence until I started courses towards my BSN. I had ever heard of it, but knew it, had felt it.

As a professional body we need to look back and see what our past has made us........before we can move forward. Oppression is a terrible thing and nursing's past is full of it. Continuing the eye rolling, gossiping, silence, talking about students and how " I can't believe, etc etc" HAS TO STOP. Call it what it is. Do not allow it to grow and spread, like it has for the last 100 years.

Burnout has been linked to moral distress and moral residue....which builds up when nurses are too tired and too downhearted to do their job correctly. Horizontal violence plays a large role in burnout..........

Strength in professional practice, JMP

Very well stated, and ITA... 110 % !!! May I stress the last line one more time:

"Horizontal violence plays a large role in burnout.......... "

Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

I'm so sorry you're having trouble.......jnette said it best. I agree that we should be embracing students, not pushing them aside as if they were in the way. I wish you could do your clinicals at my hospital, I love having students........maybe because I've never forgotten what it felt like to be new and scared to pieces!

I wish you better luck as you progress through your clinicals. Don't let the few bad ones discourage you......you sound like a very caring nurse-in-the-making, and if I were a patient I'd rather be under your care than theirs. :)

Pay attention, learn and you will know all the things NOT to do after you become a nurse. I like students. I have learned from some and helped a few. We were all students (RN/LPN) and we needed a place to learn and grow. I have had both good and bad like everybody else here. I can say I have some real memories of some special staff people who helped me along the way. Like Sister Mary Mora RN who used to steal me away to let me do neat things like give injections and see interesting things. You will meet people like this too. Don't give up, we all don't bite (just jail house nurses!).

Don't let these people get you down! I think this specific CNA may have some jealousy issues if she was that nasty towards you...I'd shrug that one off. This semester our group has been on 2 different tele units in the same hospital...the 1st: CNA=nice, RN=very mean!, the 2nd: RN=VERY VERY nice, CNA=mean,manipulative. Last week, my patient went into severe respiratory distress in a matter of seconds (mild distress all day, primary rn aware). The RT let me hold the bag-valve mask, suction the ET tube after it was inserted and let me put in an NGT under the supervision of my intructor...what a day! All this time the awesome RT didn't express any frustrations with me if I fumbled and it took 2 tries to get that NGT in! At the end of the day, the primary RN gave me a high five and said good work YOu can imagine how happy I was. And when the mean cna stated loudly that I "took the thermometer right out of my hands" (not true), I turned and gave her a smirk (not very mature, but you know...). My point is, concentrate on your victories. And as the notorious Dr. Phil says "own that" bedbath! Follow you books intructions and then add you own touches (i.e. lotsa extra warmed blankets for that always cold person, a full assessment during as tolerated, even that elusive backmassage that the busy nurses and techs don't have the time to do. Take advantage of that 1:1 b/c after school, it'll never happen again!

I've always enjoyed having nursing students. I do think that sometimes you might "turn the other cheek" and let the mean nurse or staff slide. But...if you consider that you are providing free therapy to them and helping them become a better person (and therefore a better nurse), either confront them directly about their behavior or write them up till they catch on. We have a floor that CNAs do not want to work on nor agency staff want to visit. So...when the floor calls about their lack of staff, you can imagine what my therapeutic response is. You can't call someone an a**hole, but you can tell them that their behavior is consistent with that of an a**hole!

I wanted to clarify a couple of points:

a. I didn't seek to have the CNA written up. However, since she said what she did in front of my instructor and others it happened anyway (I'm not sure who instigated the "write up", but it wasn't me).

b. I am known for having a strong "spine" with my family and friends. However, I have almost completely repressed this as a nursing student for several reasons. First, as a student I realize that they probably know more than me in almost all areas. Second, I was raised to "respect my elders" even when they were wrong or abusive (to a point). Third, I don't want to say anything that could be taken as insubordination, better my feelings be hurt than my future. However, I felt that in this case the nurse wasn't satisfied with hurting my feelings she wanted to accomplish something more.

Thanks, for all the support. In the end I realize that the advice of Jesus to love your enemies is the best. Thanks for the support. Any advice for handling similar situations in a non-confrontational (but effective) manner would be appreciated.

My first semsester of med/surg was like that. Just ignore it the best that you can, and DON'T take it personal. Went to a completely different hospital for m/s 2 and it was GREAT! It just depends. I just kept smiling and talking to people and didn't let them shake me

Best of luck

I think we can all remember 'someone' who was nasty to us when we were young and tender. I still remember some of these incidents vividly. We all eventually find 'that line' which we can't allow another to cross before we must defend ourselves in some way. Unfortunately, when this nasty behavior is part of the culture of the place, sometimes all we can do is get out. So...if its just one bully consider shutting them down if you can, but if the ugliness is ingrained in a unit or facility, better reconsider whether you want to stay there. These type places will do harm to your soul. I just left a place like this...where even the nice folks there were becoming passive aggressive (if not outright nasty) in response to the atmosphere...it was so draining to me to go in there everyday I finally had to resign.

Hugs to all students....find the nice folks and hang with them. We're out there. probably with a few bruises of our own. ;)

Yes, sometimes you need to get out and change your surroundings. I have done this and not regretted it.

Often for those who stay in a toxic enviroment, they become part of it, only way to survive. Often people don't even realize they are now a part of the problem and the solution becomes even harder to realize.

Solutions need to come from above, strong managers who provide leadership to foster and support a morally strong enviroment. Participatory management styles will allow nurses to be part of decisions in the unit, less oppressive enviroment......leading to nurses practicing to their full potential.

However, it is difficult for an individual nurse to change a toxic enviroment..... leads to burnout and moral distress...... JMP

Hard as I might, I just can't quite agree with this horizontal violence and oppression theory that is being taught. To me it just excuses the actions of people who are basically unable to be decent to others. We can analyze human behavior accross the spectrum, it still does not justify this behavior. I've found that nurses who are ugly on a day to day basis are just plain ugly people in all their dealings in life (that's a southern expression, I don't mean they are physically ugly, they are ugly in their hearts). These people many times have broken lives, broken relationships, unhappy children, etc. etc. etc., just listen to them talk about their lives and you'll hear it. I've yet to meet the nasty nurse that is kind in other areas of her life. Nursing may bring this out in them, I don't know. I think some people become nurses because they think it will give them power. When it doesn't they turn it outward toward every living thing. Maybe I will study it someday in depth. But I really hate to see the word oppression used in nursing. It so belittles what true oppression is in this world.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Hard as I might, I just can't quite agree with this horizontal violence and oppression theory that is being taught. To me it just excuses the actions of people who are basically unable to be decent to others. We can analyze human behavior accross the spectrum, it still does not justify this behavior. I've found that nurses who are ugly on a day to day basis are just plain ugly people in all their dealings in life (that's a southern expression, I don't mean they are physically ugly, they are ugly in their hearts). These people many times have broken lives, broken relationships, unhappy children, etc. etc. etc., just listen to them talk about their lives and you'll hear it. I've yet to meet the nasty nurse that is kind in other areas of her life. Nursing may bring this out in them, I don't know. I think some people become nurses because they think it will give them power. When it doesn't they turn it outward toward every living thing. Maybe I will study it someday in depth. But I really hate to see the word oppression used in nursing. It so belittles what true oppression is in this world.

Oh, wise, wise words. We teach others how to treat us and believe me, no one "oppresses" me. I learned early-on to grow a thick skin and defend my right to be treated decently, even by doctors with the attitude from hell. We are not defenseless and oppressed in my viewpoint. As a group, we DO like to whine a lot, however and that puts in a bad position. We then can do very little for ourselves if we persist in the view we are "oppressed". I don't buy it either.

This is an outstanding example of the reasons that no one should become a nurse and work with other women.

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