Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

KRVRN, BSN, RN · Mar 22, 2005

I haven't seen any news reports of it, but I'd venture to guess that Michael Schiavo has had death threats and/or tries on his life. As heated as all this has been getting, I'm sure there are people who would try to off him so that her parents will then be her next of kin.

Kyriaka · Mar 22, 2005

The only sick alive people involved in this case are the Shiavo family. They need to grasp reality that Terri has long since past. It's reported that an MRI has shown her cerbral cortex to have been liquified many years back. Instead, the family uses video and anecdotal experiences to manipulate congress and the public. Just yesterday on CNN Terri's father was quoted that he talked to Terri about taking her out for breakfast and she supposedly responded. Right! That family needs counseling.

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this is not correct. Terri has NEVER had an MRI. Her husband wont allow it.

she has had a CAT scan years ago.

Kyriaka · Mar 22, 2005

There are so many issues in this case. Another issue that we sometimes forget is a certain aspect of PVE in this case. One big disagreement is that the parents are saying Terri is not in a PVE state and the husband say it is. Unfortunately, both side got their experts to support them.
Many of us probably side with either ther parents or the husband depending on whether we think Terri is in PVE or not. If you think Terri is in PVE, you probably say let her go. If you don't think Terri is in PVE, you probably will side with the parents.
If your love one is not in a PVE state and the power to be said pull the plug, wouldn't many of us will fight with all we got?
-Dan

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Today we have MRI's. Terri's husband refuses to allow her to have one. Wouldnt you think he would want the lastest technology before she is diagnosed with PVE.

I cant stand the term "vegetative". People are living. They are not plants.

Kabin · Mar 22, 2005

1. The only "Schiavo family" is that of Michael Schiavo and Terry Schiavo. The family I presume you're referring to is the Schindler family.
2. No, Ms. Schiavo is not "long since past." She is -- at least at 11:56 a.m., EST -- still alive, despite her husband's efforts.
3. Ms. Schiavo has never had an MRI. Michael Schiavo has refused to allow one.
4. The family uses video to inform the public, since Michael Schiavo has consistently portrayed his wife as worse than she is.
5. Since, presumably, you have not had the opportunity to interview or otherwise evaluate any family dynamics or the individual family members, it is probably safe to assume that neither of us knows whether "the family needs counseling."
6. What grounds do you have for doubting that Ms. Schiavo could respond to her father's statement?
Jim Huffman, RN

1) Yes, thanks everyone for correcting that; :smackingf of course, it is the Schindler family.

2) There is a difference between a conscious life, as we know it, and the non-conscious midbrain reflexive life Terri is being forced to endure. Terri's consciousness, that made her what she was, has long since past. And as far as the husband's efforts go, he worked tirelessly for three years, with the Schindler family, to rehabilitate Terri. He even sent Terri to California for experimental neural stimulation of the cortex. It's more than the average person would do.

3) Your response is a partial truth. The Schindler family requested an MRI, but because one was performed years ago, Mr. Schiavo declined the request. Maybe I'm wrong, but I could have sworn the court appointed PhD that had access to court documents said last night on both the ABC evening news and CNN, Terri had an MRI.

4) The same court appointed evaluator, as described in item 3), assessed Terri's condition, and try as might for many hours and days, he was never able to get any indication of conscious life. He was unable to receive a response from both physically and mentally stimulating Terri. There was however, occasional random audible noises made that occurred whether he was in the room with Terri or in the hallway. Based on that, the family video may have cherry-picked moments to manipulate public opinion.

5) Based on how the family twists the truth and ignores reality, I think it's safe to conclude their near term future will involve many hours of counseling.

6) Confusion about the MRI status affects thoughts on this point.

How can all the judge from the many court cases and hearings rule unanimously and, at the same time, be confused about the facts? The simple answer is the American court system was designed so that they can't. It stands to reason the Schindler family is confused by the love for their daughter.

Kyriaka · Mar 22, 2005

I think this Terri Shiavo issue is part of a bigger political plan. There are thousands of Terri's out there, and it is costing the government MILLIONS of dollars a year to care for them. We are in the planning stages of being conditioned to accept "when it is time to pull the plug."
Terri Shiavo didn't surface on the national news for no reason.

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Retarded disabled people should be ashamed of themselves.

bugsbee · Mar 22, 2005

Have you ever worked neuro I doubt it. She is not responding to anyone. We are paying for her care not her parents. And have you not wondered why she is in Hospice being cared for. What a shame to have the courts tied up on this. I sure would believe her husband over her parents. They are keeping her alive for their own selfish reasons only, and yes I do realize how hard it is to let go. But would you like to go public in her condition and take away all your rights of privacy?

allnurses Guide · Mar 22, 2005

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Retarded disabled people should be ashamed of themselves.

:chair: Is it ok if that brought a little chuckle?

steph

Kabin · Mar 22, 2005

I found a link that suggests Terri had a CAT scan, not MRI. Note the lack of cortex area from what is supposed to be Terri's brain scan:

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/03/20/regarding-the-cat-scan-of-terri-schiavos-brain/

allnurses Guide · Mar 22, 2005

Have you ever worked neuro I doubt it. She is not responding to anyone. We are paying for her care not her parents. And have you not wondered why she is in Hospice being cared for. What a shame to have the courts tied up on this. I sure would believe her husband over her parents. They are keeping her alive for their own selfish reasons only, and yes I do realize how hard it is to let go. But would you like to go public in her condition and take away all your rights of privacy?

The Hospice issue is confusing - she isn't terminally ill.

There are reports of her responding . . .

Last Visit Narrative

by Attorney Barbara Weller

When Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was removed at 1:45 p.m. on March 18, 2005, I was one of the most surprised people on the planet. I had been visiting Terri throughout the morning with her family and her priest. As part of the legal team working throughout the previous days and nights to save Terri from a horrific fate, I was very hopeful. Although the state judicial system had obviously failed Terri by not protecting her life, I knew other forces were still at work. I fully expected the federal courts would step in to reverse this injustice, just as they might for a prisoner unjustly set for execution--although by much more humane means than Terri would be executed. Barring that, I was certain that sometime around noon, the Florida Department of Children and Family Services would come to the Woodside Hospice facility in Pinellas Park and take Terri into protective custody. Or that federal marshals would arrive from Washington D.C, where the Congress was working furiously to try to save Terri, and would stand guard at her door to prevent any medical personnel from entering her room to remove the tube that was providing her nutrition and hydration.

Finally, I was sure if nothing else was working, that at 12:59,just before the hour scheduled for Terri's gruesome execution to begin, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush would at least issue a 60-day reprieve for the legislative bodies to complete the work they were attempting to do to save Terri's life and to make sure that no other vulnerable adults could be sentenced to starve to death in America. I had done the legal research weeks before and was fully convinced that Gov. Bush had the power, under our co-equal branches of government, to issue a reprieve in the face of a judicial death sentence intended to lead to the starvation and dehydration of an innocent woman when scores of doctors and neurologists were saying she could be helped.

All morning long, as I was in the room with Terri and her family, we were telling her that help was on the way. Terri was in good spirits that morning. The mood in her room was jovial, particularly around noontime, as we knew Congressional attorneys were on the scene and many were working hard to save Terri's life. For most of that time, I was visiting and talking with Terri along with Terri's sister Suzanne Vitadamo, Suzanne's husband, and Terri's aunt, who was visiting from New York to help provide support for the family. A female Pinellas Park police office was stationed at the door outside Terri's room.

Terri was sitting up in her lounge chair, dressed and looking alert and well. Her feeding tube had been plugged in around 11 a.m. and we all felt good that she was still being fed. Suzanne and I were talking, joking, and laughing with Terri, telling her she was going to go to Washington D.C. to testify before Congress, which meant that finally Terri's husband Michael would be required to fix her wheelchair. After that Suzanne could take Terri to the mall shopping and could wheel her outdoors every day to feel the wind and sunshine on her face, something she has not been able to do for more than five years.

At one point, I noticed Terri's window blinds were pulled down. I went to the window to raise them so Terri could look at the beautiful garden outside her window and see the sun after several days of rain. As sunlight came into the room, Terri's eyes widened and she was obviously very pleased. At another point, Suzanne and I told Terri she needed to suck in all the food she could because she might not be getting anything for a few days. During that time, Mary Schindler, Terri's mother, joined us for a bit, and we noticed there were bubbles in Terri's feeding tube. We joked that we didn't want her to begin burping, and called the nurses to fix the feeding tube, which they did. Terri's mother did not come back into the room. This was a very difficult day for Bob and Mary Schindler. I suspect they were less hopeful all along than I was, having lived through Terri's last two feeding tube removals.

Suzanne and I continued to talk and joke with Terri for probably an hour or more. At one point Suzanne called Terri the bionic woman and I heard Terri laugh out loud heartily for the first time since I have been visiting with her. She laughed so hard that for the first time I noticed the dimples in her cheeks.

The most dramatic event of this visit happened at one point when I was sitting on Terri's bed next to Suzanne. Terri was sitting in her lounge chair and her aunt was standing at the foot of the chair. I stood up and learned over Terri. I took her arms in both of my hands. I said to her, "Terri if you could only say 'I want to live' this whole thing could be over today." I begged her to try very hard to say, "I want to live." To my enormous shock and surprise, Terri's eyes opened wide, she looked me square in the face, and with a look of great concentration, she said, "Ahhhhhhh." Then, seeming to summon up all the strength she had, she virtually screamed, "Waaaaaaaa." She yelled so loudly that Michael Vitadamo, Suzanne's husband, and the female police officer who were then standing together outside Terri's door, clearly heard her. At that point, Terri had a look of anguish on her face that I had never seen before and she seemed to be struggling hard, but was unable to complete the sentence. She became very frustrated and began to cry. I was horrified that I was obviously causing Terri so much anguish. Suzanne and I began to stroke Terri's face and hair to comfort her. I told Terri I was very sorry. It had not been my intention to upset her so much. Suzanne and I assured Terri that her efforts were much appreciated and that she did not need to try to say anything more. I promised Terri I would tell the world that she had tried to say, "I want to live."

Suzanne and I continued to visit and talk with Terri, along with other family members who came and went in the room, until about 2:00 p.m. when we were all told to leave after Judge Greer denied yet another motion for stay and ordered the removal of the feeding tube to proceed. As we left the room, the female police officer outside the door was valiantly attempting to keep from crying.

Just as Terri's husband Michael has told the world he must keep an alleged promise to kill Terri, a promise remembered a million dollars and nearly a decade after the fact; I must keep my promise to Terri immediately. Time is running out for her. I went out to the banks of cameras outside the hospice facility and told the story immediately. Now I must also tell the story in writing for the world to hear. It may be the last effective thing I can do to try to keep Terri alive so she can get the testing, therapy, and rehabilitative help she so desperately needs before it is too late.

About four in the afternoon, several hours after the feeding tube was removed, I returned to Terri's room. By that time she was alone except for a male police officer now standing inside the door. When I entered the room and began to speak to her, Terri started to cry and tried to speak to me immediately. It was one of the most helpless feelings I have ever had. Terri was looking very melancholy at that point and I had the sense she was very upset that we had told her things were going to get better, but instead, they were obviously getting worse. I had previously had the same feeling when my own daughter was a baby who was hospitalized and was crying and looking to me to rescue her from her hospital crib, something I could not do. While I was in the room with Terri for the next half hour or so, several other friends came to visit and I did a few press interviews sitting right next to Terri. I again raised her window shade, which had again been pulled down, so Terri could at least see the garden and the sunshine from her lounge chair. I also turned the radio on in her room before I left so that when she was alone, she would at least have some music for comfort.

Just before I left the room, I leaned over Terri and spoke right into her ear. I told her I was very sorry I had not been able to stop the feeding tube from being taken out and I was very sorry I had to leave her alone. But I reminded her that Jesus would stay right by her side even when no one else was there with her. When I mentioned Jesus' Name, Terri again laughed out loud. She became very agitated and began loudly trying to speak to me again. As Terri continued to laugh and try to speak, I quietly prayed in her ear, kissed her, placed her in Jesus' care, and left the room.

Terri is alone now. As I write this last visit narrative, it is five in the morning of March 19. Terri has been without food and water for nearly 17 hours. I'm sure she is beginning at least become thirsty, if not hungry. And I am left to wonder how many other people care.

http://cogforlife.org/schiavoweller.htm

allnurses Guide · Mar 22, 2005

From 2003 . . .

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200309%5CCUL20030903b.html

Disabled Woman Would Cry 'Help Me,' Caregivers Claim

By Jeff Johnson

CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief

September 03, 2003

(Editor's note: This report contains quoted language and descriptions of alleged multiple instances of denied medical care that some readers may find offensive.)

(CNSNews.com) - A federal judge Tuesday refused to stop a Florida court from ordering the removal of a disabled woman's feeding tube at the request of her husband. However, the judge gave the woman's parents ten days to amend their lawsuit against the husband, the hospital caring for the woman and the hospice where she is being kept in anticipation of her death by starvation or dehydration. The lawsuit also named the husband's attorney as a "non-party co-conspirator" to the alleged violations.

Robert and Mary Schindler filed an emergency complaint Saturday with the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida in Tampa in an effort to block their daughter's husband and legal guardian, Michael Schiavo, from moving forward with plans to remove his wife's feeding tube. Thirty-nine year old Terri Schindler Schiavo suffered a brain injury in 1990 under questionable circumstances. That injury, complicated by a lack of therapy for more than a decade, has required that she be given nutrition and hydration through a gastrostomy or "feeding tube." . . . . . .

James Huffman · Mar 22, 2005

She is not responding to anyone. We are paying for her care not her parents. And have you not wondered why she is in Hospice being cared for. What a shame to have the courts tied up on this. I sure would believe her husband over her parents. They are keeping her alive for their own selfish reasons only, and yes I do realize how hard it is to let go. But would you like to go public in her condition and take away all your rights of privacy?

1. She is most definitely responsive; the videos indicate that. Saying otherwise is simply ignoring the evidence.

2. "We" are paying for a lot of stuff. I'm not exactly sure why the costs spent on Ms. Schiavo's care is suddenly such a big deal when it is next to nothing in the big scheme of government spending.

3. Yes, I have wondered why a woman who is not dying is in a hospice. I thought that's what hospices are for.

4. This is an important case; that's one of many reasons the courts are involved in it.

5. We can believe whom we want to believe. But Michael Schiavo, I continue to remind people says the following:

"When is she going to die?"

"Has she died yet?"

"When is that ***** gonna die?"

"Can't you do anything to accelerate her death - won't she ever die?"

and her nurse pointed out that "When she wouldn't die, Michael would be furious."

I am disinclined to believe that someone who makes such statements is someone worthy of believing.

6. Since I'm not privy to the mind of the Schindler family, I won't presume to guess that they are being "selfish." Maybe they love their daughter, and don't want her to die. Why is that such a problem?

Jim Huffman, RN

Haunted · Mar 22, 2005

I've expressed my opinion on the subject in the current event boards many times. I support the husband in his desires to carry out his wife's wishes and I'll leave it at that.
To the original question, as it pertains to my nursing practice, I support spouses and families with nonjudgement no matter what they do in cases like this. I taken care of patients on both sides of this issue, those in a permanent vegetative state that are kept alive with all kinds of heroics and those who have been allowed to finish the process of dying that their initial illness/injury started, which I think of a tremendous act of love and courage, not murder. This included the case of a 19 year old head injured boy who would have lived for 40 years on a tube feeding, but his parents cut it off and he died of dehydration.
I think any "Terri's Laws" that would present this option for families is dangerous territory.
Off topic. Terri's husband was on the radio the other day saying he got offered lots of money to keep her alive and drop his efforts. I wonder if this is true.

Absolutely TRUE! A business man in So Cal offered him something like 10 million bucks to release guardianship to her parents.

My humble opinion, give this woman 30 days of PT, OT, SLP etc. Give her every opportunity ONCE AND FOR ALL in a neutral facility with no intervention on the parent's or husbands part. After 30 days, have her evaluated by a neutral, court appointed physician to determine the viability of continued therapy. If yes, have her declared a ward of the state and resume treatment, if no, resume the starvation. What say you all?