Are CNA's considered "Nurses"? - page 10
I am a new nurse but was a CNA for 15 years before going to school. I was never referred to as a nurse when I was a CNA. I recently went to work in a Doc office where the CNA refers to herself as a... Read More
Jun 4, '04ALNAMVET:
Once again your venom is exploding all over the board. Please try to remember all of the members of these boards are due respect for their individual efforts.
Jun 4, '04Quote from missmercyit's being taught because of the nursing shortage & many institutions hiring more & more lpns/lvns in acute care. at the university where i received my bsn...90% of the professors there either stated or inferred in their lectures or actually taught us in our leadership course that upas & lpns/lvns' education weren't as good as that of the rns. i actually when rounds with many of them about this & one had the gall to say "any baboon could be trained to do what lpns/lvns do. they always went with the semitics regarding rns are 'educated' while lpns/lvns are 'trained'. rns have 'critical thinking' skills where lpns/lvns blindly followed orders with giving a moments' notice as to why they were performing psychomotor skills. those are semetics like lpns 'gather' information where rns 'assess'....lpns/lvns are 'trained' whereas rns are 'educated'. now i've always heard docs talking about where they were 'trained'...just try to tell them they're not educated . i went there as a lpn (having six years experience ~ most of which being in the army reserves!). in fact...i've been a non commissioned officer in charge of the icu section my last three years there & find this way of thinking to be very insulting at best. i only decided to go for my rn-bsn in order to broaden my career opportunities while still in the military & took great exception to my former professors' perception or way of thinking if you will.where do those rns go to school?! we were most certainly not taught that cnas and lvns were not as good as we were!! ****major generalizations like that can really get under folk's craws!!**** i value the members of my care team regardless of their educational level -- we all have important roles and if we do them well, we make a great team!! my level of respect tends to drop when someone (rn, lvn, aide, tech, transporter, volunteer) gets a major chip on their shoulder and "cops a tude" -- being a hard working, ethical professional is what counts and knowing the differences in the legal division of labor -- your scope of practice -- that's what we were taught!
in fact, many of those master & even doctorate educated instructors never even worked with lpn/lvns. many don't know (or don't care to know) what's involved in lpn/lvns' programs. one instructor actually admitted to me that she really don't know...but was only relaying what was taught to her in school (& this is coming from a msn instruction of 15 years).
one thing i find funny is that this alnamvet person can say whatever they want to say about upas & lpns/lvns' worth to the healthcare profession without a lot of rns coming down on her. but i do see many rns not wasting any time to come out of the woodwork to defend themselves to what lpn2be2004 said because they think she made a 'generalization' regarding what rns are taught about upas & lpn/lvns. none of those crying foul play has chastised alnamvet so far for their being insensitive or making 'generalizations' about other licensed nurses & upas...whether they agree with this alnamvet person or not. it's often not what's being said...but how (that's the reason you're being attacked alnamvet ~ you should learn some tact if you want your message to be taken seriously or if you don't want to be attacked....thus explains the messenger being flamed for their message). i find those particular rns taking exception to lpn2be2004 statement without even addressing alnamvet's statement to be offensive because they're validating this person's put-down without merit. i'm not talking to the rest of the rns who have responded tactfully...whether they agree with alnamvet or not isn't my beef...it's how they do relay their message will determine how well their message is perceived & taken. my apologies to those rns who do have tact! my beef isn't with you .
alnamvet's statement regarding rns being a minimum requirement for nursing hold no water when they didn't even specify which level rn (diploma, adn/aas/asn, or bsn) is to be entry level as 'professional' nurse. heck....some medical professional minimum entry level is that of master's (i.e...social workers, pt/ot/resp therapists, etc). if what alnamvet's truly looking to support the entry level of a 'professional' nurse...then they should've stated rn, bsn. but in reality...lpns/lvns are entry levels for the 'technical' nurse with adn/aas/asn & diploma nurses being the highest level 'technical' nurse. the 'professional' nurse start-out with the bsn. now i'll go so far to say that if what nursing need to do to 'rise the bar'....then alter the lpn/lvns' programs to that of the adn/aas/asn degrees & give them the same scope of practice as that of the adn/aas/asn/diploma nurses have now. there should also be lpn-rn bridges available should those lpns/lvns decide to continue their education later on. then have the rns currently holding adn/aas/asn & diploma bridge over through a rn-bsn program so that they'll be 'professional' nurses. this seems to work for canadia...i'm really at a lost as to why it's not done here...but that's another topic.
getting back to why i even bothered to post...you know alnamvet...docs could say the same regarding apns, pas, aas, etc....some of them (& i'm sure there are plenty) do have that mindset & would like nothing better than to limit yourscope of practice to the point of just taking orders instead of being able to dx & tx. sooooo do take care alnamvet or you may find-yourself choking on your very own words someday. you never know...the sbon may reverse your right to practice as a fnp should the ama get their way~~
moeLast edit by SKM-NURSIEPOOH on Jun 4, '04
Jun 4, '04Quote from dinith88thx you very much!!!!cna's 'do' nursing at it's base level. they clean, bathe, feed, sooth, and attend to patients....the same way nurses did throughout history.
in our modern world, however, nurses have evolved and become something quite different (due to technological revolutions, medical science, etc.). the role of say an icu nurse, er nurse, nurse anesthetist, etc.(for example) are all modern variants of nursing that would be alien to nurses 100 years ago.
the point i'm trying to make i guess is that a good 'cna' would have been a good 'nurse' in florence nightengale's time....but the nurses around florence (including florence herself) would require a great deal of re-training, re-education, and culture-shock if expected to 'step in' for one of us today. modern nursing has an identity all it's own.
so..if you want to split hairs, no, a cna is not a nurse..but, a cna does the work that has it's roots set firmly in what nursing is, was, and always will be.
Jun 4, '04Quote from nursesherryNO NO NO!!!! A CNA class in Ky. is 75 hrs/ 16 hrs. clinicals. CNA's cannot give meds or insert/remove anything from the body(except enemia). CNA's work under supervision of a nurse. I know this because i'm in the class now. We are taught to correct anyone that referred to us as a nurse as its fraud/nursing without a license.CRB613I am a new nurse but was a CNA for 15 years before going to school. I was never referred to as a nurse when I was a CNA. I recently went to work in a Doc office where the CNA refers to herself as a Nurse and all of the office personelle refer to her as a nurse. She does everything that I do. I was suprised at this. I have since found that many Doc offices utilize CNA's as nurses. Is this a new thing? I don't want to sound caddy but it just kind of seems like my blood, sweat and tears I put intowas for nothing if a CNA can do my job. Please don't think this is a smack to CNA's because I have much respect for them as I was one myself for so many years. I would just like to hear some opinions.
Jun 4, '04Quote from nursesherrywe nurses have lost our titles entirely. let me explain...i am a new nurse but was a cna for 15 years before going to school. i was never referred to as a nurse when i was a cna. i recently went to work in a doc office where the cna refers to herself as a nurse and all of the office personnel refer to her as a nurse. she does everything that i do. i was surprised at this. i have since found that many doc offices utilize cna's as nurses. is this a new thing? i don't want to sound caddy but it just kind of seems like my blood, sweat and tears i put intowas for nothing if a cna can do my job. please don't think this is a smack to cna's because i have much respect for them as i was one myself for so many years. i would just like to hear some opinions.
for the most part, we address docs by their title & then their sir name...right? what's happened to nursing is that folks in healthcare (starting with ourselves on up to docs) don't respect our titles anymore. we used to be referred to as nurse _______(fill-in your sir name). now we're...lisa, jen, dave, jeff, the nurse. in fact...most of my co-workers (especially the male ones) will refer themselves as the rn or lpn/lvn...they go in & say: "hi i'm dave, your rn"...they don't even say they're the nurse to their patients! we assume that patients know the difference between cna, lpn/lvn, & rn...but many don't!
perhaps we should go back to using our titles with our sir name & not rely so much on the lettering behind our names....yeah that might be a bit uptight or formal...but at least we would get some respect back as nurses...at least imho.