Are CNA's considered "Nurses"?

tabh · Jun 4, 2004

I think the title should be changed to Tech or Aide but for what it's worth CNAs do assist nurses. I think CNAs in hospitals should be called Patient Techs/Aides and CNAs in LTC should be called Resident Techs/Aides. Or how about just "Health Consumer Aide." :chuckle Before I was a CNA I worked as just an aide and one day a resident needed something - I forget what - and she said to them "Come with me and I'll take care of you. I'm the nurse; I'll fix it." :imbar I couldn't believe she said that. It was very dangerous and unprofessional of her. She misrepresented herself and overstepped the scope of her certification, even though whatever care she gave was not out of the scope of her certification. Even though she was otherwise a good CNA I don't think girls like her should be aides because they obviously don't know their role.

KacyLynnRN · Jun 4, 2004

You are right...just like the N in CNA....and the N in NA....and like the N in NT....a CNA and a LPN just doesn't cut it anymore; get over it....feel slighted? that's on you...get used to it :stone

You know Alnamvet...you sound like on of the RN's I would hate to work with...an RN who has never been anything but an RN and has no idea where LPN's, CNA's, etc. are coming from, and therefore treat them like crap...I hate working with people like you!

I for one was a CNA for 3 years, an LPN for 2 years, and will graduate with my RN in a few months. I am sure with my background I would never treat others in the healthcare field the way you do. Maybe you need to get a kick in the butt to cure your RNitis you seem to be suffering from. :stone

barbiedee · Jun 4, 2004

Alnamvet...what an attitude! With health care budgets and costs the way they are, do you realize what an all RN/BSN/MSN staff would cost???? Check out the pay scale for a CNA or LPN then do the math. If a facility worked with the same budget and had to hire only RN's you can bet your sweet patooty that the patient load would be double. Translate...you'd have to do all the scut work and ADL's for twice the number of patients. As well as the "RN only" work the RN's presently do. I'd love to find out where that "i'm greater than thou" attitude came from. You sure you're not a doctor???:)

barbiedee · Jun 4, 2004

Oh, by the way...did anyone notice that Alnamvet has been banned from postings? Hmmm...wonder why?:chuckle

kimburlynn · Jun 4, 2004

Wow, though I think a CNA should never refer to her/himself as a nurse they definetly do ALOT of the nursing in my opinion.When my Dad had heart surgery we hardly saw the RN's in charge of him mostly the CNA's and LPN's.If all we had was RN's on that floor I wonder what level of care he would have received.I am hoping one day to be an RN and I have respected the profession since childhood.Kudos to you wonderful RN's out there who respect ALL your valuable helpers and shame on you ones that dont.:uhoh21:

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jun 4, 2004

Wow, though I think a CNA should never refer to her/himself as a nurse they definetly do ALOT of the nursing in my opinion.When my Dad had heart surgery we hardly saw the RN's in charge of him mostly the CNA's and LPN's.If all we had was RN's on that floor I wonder what level of care he would have received.I am hoping one day to be an RN and I have respected the profession since childhood.Kudos to you wonderful RN's out there who respect ALL your valuable helpers and shame on you ones that dont.:uhoh21:

The floor my dad was on (Vascular Med-Surg) was nothing but RNs, and no aides at all. They were great.

Amylcd · Jun 5, 2004

To the person who said there is no need for CNA's... I would LOVE to see you do that job and still have time for your duties as an RN. Thats like saying there are no need for nurses, doctors can do it all on their own. RN/LPN's are assistants to them, as CNA's are assistants to the nurses.

Lindsay112 · Jun 5, 2004

I'm thinking about getting my CNA, but I don't know where I can do that. Also, how long does the program take and what does it cost? Can anybody help me out?

barefootlady, ADN, RN · Jun 5, 2004

The best places I have ever worked have considered cna's a valuable part of the team. They were quick to identify themselves as cna's and quick to spot problems and report them to the nurse. I did do primary care, I loved it, of course we only had 4 patients, we would buddy up and do the baths, treatments, IV's. dressings, and give our own po meds. Every hour we were expected to check our boxes for new orders, and if we had a stat then the unit clerk informed us of a stat orders. The patient satisfaction was very high but the hospital did away with this system in short time, too much difficulty in staffing was their reason, but money was the bottom line. Pay for the RN was eating up budgets. Oh, the doctors loved it too. The same nurse had the same group of patients for about a week or until discharge or transfer, orders were not overlooked, change in condition was noted and reported, IV meds were on time and so were tests. Wow, how I miss those good old days.

barefootlady, ADN, RN · Jun 5, 2004

ALNAMVET:

Once again your venom is exploding all over the board. Please try to remember all of the members of these boards are due respect for their individual efforts.

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · Jun 5, 2004

where do those rns go to school?! we were most certainly not taught that cnas and lvns were not as good as we were!! ****major generalizations like that can really get under folk's craws!!**** i value the members of my care team regardless of their educational level -- we all have important roles and if we do them well, we make a great team!! my level of respect tends to drop when someone (rn, lvn, aide, tech, transporter, volunteer) gets a major chip on their shoulder and "cops a tude" -- being a hard working, ethical professional is what counts and knowing the differences in the legal division of labor -- your scope of practice -- that's what we were taught!

it's being taught because of the nursing shortage & many institutions hiring more & more lpns/lvns in acute care. at the university where i received my bsn...90% of the professors there either stated or inferred in their lectures or actually taught us in our leadership course that upas & lpns/lvns' education weren't as good as that of the rns. i actually when rounds with many of them about this & one had the gall to say "any baboon could be trained to do what lpns/lvns do. they always went with the semitics regarding rns are 'educated' while lpns/lvns are 'trained'. rns have 'critical thinking' skills where lpns/lvns blindly followed orders with giving a moments' notice as to why they were performing psychomotor skills. those are semetics like lpns 'gather' information where rns 'assess'....lpns/lvns are 'trained' whereas rns are 'educated'. now i've always heard docs talking about where they were 'trained'...just try to tell them they're not educated :rolleyes:

. i went there as a lpn (having six years experience ~ most of which being in the army reserves!). in fact...i've been a non commissioned officer in charge of the icu section my last three years there & find this way of thinking to be very insulting at best. i only decided to go for my rn-bsn in order to broaden my career opportunities while still in the military & took great exception to my former professors' perception or way of thinking if you will.

in fact, many of those master & even doctorate educated instructors never even worked with lpn/lvns. many don't know (or don't care to know) what's involved in lpn/lvns' programs. one instructor actually admitted to me that she really don't know...but was only relaying what was taught to her in school (& this is coming from a msn instruction of 15 years).

one thing i find funny is that this alnamvet person can say whatever they want to say about upas & lpns/lvns' worth to the healthcare profession without a lot of rns coming down on her. but i do see many rns not wasting any time to come out of the woodwork to defend themselves to what lpn2be2004 said because they think she made a 'generalization' regarding what rns are taught about upas & lpn/lvns. none of those crying foul play has chastised alnamvet so far for their being insensitive or making 'generalizations' about other licensed nurses & upas...whether they agree with this alnamvet person or not. it's often not what's being said...but how (that's the reason you're being attacked alnamvet ~ you should learn some tact if you want your message to be taken seriously or if you don't want to be attacked....thus explains the messenger being flamed for their message). i find those particular rns taking exception to lpn2be2004 statement without even addressing alnamvet's statement to be offensive because they're validating this person's put-down without merit. i'm not talking to the rest of the rns who have responded tactfully...whether they agree with alnamvet or not isn't my beef...it's how they do relay their message will determine how well their message is perceived & taken. my apologies to those rns who do have tact! my beef isn't with you .

alnamvet's statement regarding rns being a minimum requirement for nursing hold no water when they didn't even specify which level rn (diploma, adn/aas/asn, or bsn) is to be entry level as 'professional' nurse. heck....some medical professional minimum entry level is that of master's (i.e...social workers, pt/ot/resp therapists, etc). if what alnamvet's truly looking to support the entry level of a 'professional' nurse...then they should've stated rn, bsn. but in reality...lpns/lvns are entry levels for the 'technical' nurse with adn/aas/asn & diploma nurses being the highest level 'technical' nurse. the 'professional' nurse start-out with the bsn. now i'll go so far to say that if what nursing need to do to 'rise the bar'....then alter the lpn/lvns' programs to that of the adn/aas/asn degrees & give them the same scope of practice as that of the adn/aas/asn/diploma nurses have now. there should also be lpn-rn bridges available should those lpns/lvns decide to continue their education later on. then have the rns currently holding adn/aas/asn & diploma bridge over through a rn-bsn program so that they'll be 'professional' nurses. this seems to work for canadia...i'm really at a lost as to why it's not done here...but that's another topic.

getting back to why i even bothered to post...you know alnamvet...docs could say the same regarding apns, pas, aas, etc....some of them (& i'm sure there are plenty) do have that mindset & would like nothing better than to limit yourscope of practice to the point of just taking orders instead of being able to dx & tx. sooooo do take care alnamvet or you may find-yourself choking on your very own words someday. you never know...the sbon may reverse your right to practice as a fnp should the ama get their way~~

ciao!

moe

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · Jun 5, 2004

cna's 'do' nursing at it's base level. they clean, bathe, feed, sooth, and attend to patients....the same way nurses did throughout history.

in our modern world, however, nurses have evolved and become something quite different (due to technological revolutions, medical science, etc.). the role of say an icu nurse, er nurse, nurse anesthetist, etc.(for example) are all modern variants of nursing that would be alien to nurses 100 years ago.

the point i'm trying to make i guess is that a good 'cna' would have been a good 'nurse' in florence nightengale's time....but the nurses around florence (including florence herself) would require a great deal of re-training, re-education, and culture-shock if expected to 'step in' for one of us today. modern nursing has an identity all it's own.

so..if you want to split hairs, no, a cna is not a nurse..but, a cna does the work that has it's roots set firmly in what nursing is, was, and always will be.

thx you very much!!!!

cheers!

moe