Agency Nursing vs Staff Nursing - page 10

Hi All! I am preparing to do a debate in my Nursing 510 course about agency vs staff nursing. It is a formal debate complete with PowerPoint presentation, etc. My team and I will be arguing... Read More

  1. by   fadingyouth
    reply reply let me see if i can understand suzyk.
    we have thus far learned who and what she is, what a debate is,and how functional she is. and...........all this time i thought she was a student (beginning the program)
    how much better this world would be if we were all sooooooooooooo smart.
    you cannot make a blanket statement about agency nurses no more than one can make a blanket statement about staff nurses.
    not all receive "crappy" orientations and flounder within the halls of a hospital that they are assigned to. some have certifications and achievements that provide them with an increased rating.
    some, as brownms46 said, are invited back time and again and often called to come in when they do not appear on schedule.
    it is many an agency nurse who gets to work overtime when others are not and some, like myself, will be invited to stay while a staff member goes home.
    if hospitals paid adequately and delivered on their never ending promises then available staff might never be an issue, but i personally can not exist on salaries that are 1/2 of what i make now without a salary cap.
    someday, not this century, those decision making persons widening their royal throne will suddenly become enlightened.
  2. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    ..good luck with those review articles...you say you only have one & that 2o is required...yikes.

    i know what you mean about used to being able to bang-out a paper in a few hours...but now, at this level, it won't be so easy...espeically manipulating data from research & experiments.

    and am now making the translation to a paper (while surfing allnurses of course!) good lord woman!!!

    good luck with your on-line stats course!!! i was the type that needed constant interaction with both stats i & ii instructors...heehee...lol. :roll don't know if i could've handled an on-line course though.
    :chuckle
  3. by   Maula, RN
    Originally posted by Susy K



    How's that saying go? Open mouth, insert foot? :chuckle

    Assuming and speaking before thinking. Common mistake alot of people make.


    Point well taken.
  4. by   Q.
    Originally posted by fadingyouth
    [sooooooooooooo smart.
    You cannot make a blanket statement about agency nurses no more than one can make a blanket statement about staff nurses.
    Not all receive "crappy" orientations and flounder within the halls of a hospital that they are assigned to.
    I believe I said in a general sense, certainly not as a hard and fast rule, that agency receive crappy orientations. Time and again we've had agency show up only 1 hour before the scheduled shift and was barely shown the OR.

    At any rate, if we appeared as wishy-washy as you want me to be here, as in "well SOME but not ALL agency this," and "SOME agency that" and "well not always but..." we really wouldn't have been effective in our debate, would we?

    Again, my PERSONAL opinion, (not what I used for the debate) was that agency is being used inappropriately IN THAT rather than dealing with the reason why there are no staff nurses, the hospitals are using agency as a safety net rather than addressing the ROOT PROBLEM.
  5. by   Q.
    Actually, I am still in amazement at the amount of assuming that goes on here.

    Do people really read entire threads or only the pieces they want? I don't get how anyone could have thought I wasn't a nurse. And Maura, this isn't at you - because obviously you weren't the only one.

    Anyway, Moe, thanks for the words of support r/t school. I'm almost done with my paper, anyway.
  6. by   mattsmom81
    Perhaps because the attitude 'read' in many posts may seem more suggestive of an egocentric student heading to the ivory tower of academia vs a realistic-sounding nurse deep in the trenches? Just a thought, since the question was asked.

    Some posts seem designed to stir up controversy, and I am disappointed this is occurring; as I recall the uproar over Greytnurse's admission that she posted to 'get a rise'.Just an observation.
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on Apr 23, '02
  7. by   fadingyouth
    Originally posted by mattsmom81
    Perhaps because the attitude seen in many posts is more suggestive of an egotistical student heading to the ivory tower of academia vs a realistic-sounding nurse deep in the trenches? Just a thought, since you asked.....
    May I applaud your comment.
    I did not expect that Susy would seriously think that I wished her to be "wishy-washy". My comment was simply to intone that not all agency nurses fall within the guidelines that her academic narrow-mindedness appears to suggest.
    One must learn that success is not necessarily built upon the ladders of academia, but what is in the heart. The realities of life dealt with a common sense approach tend to better work and social environments.
    A simple lesson was learned from an octogenarian with an 8th grade education. He was happy with his life and his accomplishemts for he never met a stranger and treated others as he wished to be treated. He had been able to speak with corporate heads and had been treated well. He had, as he told me, suceeded.
    Keep that thought............. :zzzzz
  8. by   Stargazer
    Perhaps because the attitude 'read' in many posts may seem more suggestive of an egocentric student heading to the ivory tower of academia vs a realistic-sounding nurse deep in the trenches?
    Wow. Just...wow. That is really, really uncalled for. And all the winkie smilies in the world don't negate the mean-spiritedness of that post.

    Please go back and read Susy's first post. I took it, as I am sure it was meant, as a sincere request for info and opinions from other experienced nurses to help her with a school assignment. A very straightforward request. I've read this entire thread, and how and when and WHY that simple request for info, and what started out as a reasonable academic discussion, got twisted into something else escapes me.

    "Academic narrowmindedness"? I truly don't get why some people on this board act like they're allergic to higher education. Why it's always played out as Us Against Them. The majority of folks who go for advanced nursing degrees already have clinical experience. Everyone I know with an advanced degree got it while continuing to work full time. There is no Them. It's just Us.

    Since when is more knowledge a bad thing? Knowledge is power, folks. And I'm starting to see very clearly why nurses don't have any.
  9. by   mattsmom81
    My previous comment was quite straightforward and based on the assumption that someone here really DID want an answer to a question. Of course, I may be mistaken here, as some folks don't want to hear honest feedback unless it's sugarcoated.

    When someone asks for 'whys' they may get answers they don't like. And folks that can't take the heat should stay out of the kitchen, IMHO.
  10. by   Q.
    Uncalled for is right. Amazing. Truly amazing.

    Stargazer, it's pointless. No one reads the entire thread anymore, as evidenced by assuming I wasn't a nurse, though I wrote early on to Brownie about my experience with agency nurses and how I staff when I am in charge. And how when my floor changed needle systems, we had increased needle sticks as well due to unfamiliarity with the equipment. In fact, I'm sure more than half of the people didn't even realize this was a school project and assumed (again without reading) that the opinion my team HAD to defend was in fact, my opinion. I've stated my opinion in a couple threads above and refuse to repeat it.

    You're right - it's not about US vs THEM. I am nurse working in the trenches who happens to be going to school because I want to TEACH. I don't see why because I chose that route, it becomes an issue.

    Mattsmom, I've seen posts of yours where you express a desire to teach as well. When you find out that in order to teach you may need a MSN, should we scoff at you and call you narrow-minded because you are persuing your degree? Would that be fair?

    The uncalled for hostility and obvious rude comments without even reading the whole thread is what is disturbing. For god's sake if you are going to comment, at least read the whole thread!

    Anyway - adios. I got feedback from those I needed it from, and for that I thank you. Moe, I thank you for the small dialouge we had and I appreciate your well wishes. And Mattsmom, remember this attitude you hold of students because, if you really want to teach, one day YOU will be a student like I am.
  11. by   fadingyouth
    Stargazer: I did not state that education/knowledge is a "bad thing". The comment was directed at the philosophy that some educated souls possess--that is, that unless one has a number of degrees ( a paper trail) the others know less or nothing at all.
    With advanced degrees and successful completion of courses comes a need to be able to teach and share those ideas with those among you. It may seem so simple to someone with an education, yet most difficult to comprehend for someone without. At no time does it( the lack) mean that that person is of lesser value or unable to learn.
    Education accessed defines itself in a "smart man" when it is shared and handed down.
    Keep trying.............
  12. by   Brownms46
    Originally posted by Susy K
    Uncalled for is right. Amazing. Truly amazing.

    Stargazer, it's pointless. No one reads the entire thread anymore, as evidenced by assuming I wasn't a nurse, though I wrote early on to Brownie about my experience with agency nurses and how I staff when I am in charge. And how when my floor changed needle systems, we had increased needle sticks as well due to unfamiliarity with the equipment. In fact, I'm sure more than half of the people didn't even realize this was a school project and assumed (again without reading) that the opinion my team HAD to defend was in fact, my opinion. I've stated my opinion in a couple threads above and refuse to repeat it.

    You're right - it's not about US vs THEM. I am nurse working in the trenches who happens to be going to school because I want to TEACH. I don't see why because I chose that route, it becomes an issue.

    Mattsmom, I've seen posts of yours where you express a desire to teach as well. When you find out that in order to teach you may need a MSN, should we scoff at you and call you narrow-minded because you are persuing your degree? Would that be fair?

    The uncalled for hostility and obvious rude comments without even reading the whole thread is what is disturbing. For god's sake if you are going to comment, at least read the whole thread!

    Anyway - adios. I got feedback from those I needed it from, and for that I thank you. Moe, I thank you for the small dialouge we had and I appreciate your well wishes. And Mattsmom, remember this attitude you hold of students because, if you really want to teach, one day YOU will be a student like I am.
    Susy K

    I have to be honest here...as I think that is the only way to approach this. Susy K...I know you're a nurse, that you work per diem in L&D...that you work in a clinic ...that you're going back to school...I know this..ok??

    First I don't feel mattsmom was being hostile or rude. I must say that her statement was blunt....and a little stinging...but it was a fair assessment of how you come across sometimes.

    Susy K...you have to think...why are these nurses writing the way they do....could it possibly have something to do with the way I coming across. Your answer to that question is that no one reads the whole thread. Well I have read the whole thread and have been "in it" since it began...so I took exception at your pointing out to me in a previous post that this was a "debate"! I knew it was a debate...and I couldn't figure out why.... you thought you needed to remind of this. But I chose to ignore it. And I probably never would have mentioned it...except to make the point now...that sometimes you do come across as someone not in the trenches. And your tendency to make blanket statement tends to rub others the wrong way...as your statement about not using agency at all. To me it was obvious that I wasn't responding to the topic of the debate...but to your own personal statements. So even though some may or may not read the entire thread...many times it is a certain post that is what gets to someone enough to make them respond...and they're responding to that particular post and not the whole thread.

    And Stargazer....many of us aren't allergic to higher education....and I'm really bothered by that statement. I have been supported of Susy K in this debate thread. As I have said...I felt it was a worthy topic...and applauded her success. But that doesn't keep me from stating how I feel about statements she has made that were her own personal feelings about agency....that she has and continues to express.... not only in this thread but others. The nurses she is positing to now...are agency nurses...and what we are addressing is not the debate...but Susy K's own personal views! Please don't belittle this to just being everyone else is not chosing to read...as that is not the problem.
  13. by   Q.
    This is my personal view:

    I do agree with the use of agency or travelers in certain situations: like when we had 3 full-timers out for maternity leave at the same time, etc etc. But I do not think I agree with using agency to regularly staff the floors to compensate for nurses leaving in droves because the pay stinks.


    and this:
    Again, my PERSONAL opinion, (not what I used for the debate) was that agency is being used inappropriately IN THAT rather than dealing with the reason why there are no staff nurses, the hospitals are using agency as a safety net rather than addressing the ROOT PROBLEM.


    And this was the stance of my debate:

    My opinion that I expressed here on this board has nothing to do with the debate and how it was presented. We didn't present the debate from the stance that agency doesn't get as involved as staff nurses, we presented it from the standpoint that agency shouldn't be used PERIOD.

    That is why Brownie I felt you needed reminding that this was a debate, because it was this was the post that you responded to. If I misintrepreted, then I apologize.

    But I think alot of people are confused about what the debate stance was, and what MY opinion was - hence the attacks.
    I am not defending myself anymore. The debate is finished in my class and it was productive and we are all still friends; as far as I am concerned the debate is done here too.

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Agency Nursing vs Staff Nursing