Administration vs nurses: priming lines with normal saline

Nurses General Nursing

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There is a huge blowup at my hospital lately about the practice of priming an antibiotic line with normal saline first.

The nature of our EMR system automatically names some things - like Zosyn, Iron, and K-riders - piggybacks. As I've always understood, a piggyback should be administered as a secondary line, but these are often ordered on patients who are saline locked and do not have a primary line.

In addition, even when running as a primary, we were taught initially to prime the line with a small amount of normal saline to avoid wasting medicine when trying to get bubbles out. It is, after all, part of our protocol to flush lines a couple times a day with a 10CC flush, so no one thought any differently of a few CCs of saline to prime tubing.

However, our hospital has decreed that this is "nurses practicing medicine" and that we are not allowed to do so. I do understand their point, but I also see how frustrating it is from the point of a nurse to waste small piggybacks like iron in an attempt to get air bubbles out of the line.

I've worked in several places and had never had an issue with line priming with saline, so I wanted to see, from the allnurses standpoint, your thoughts and how things typically work at other facilities.

Specializes in Critical Care.
Does your pharmacy not over fill by 5-10mls? I've never gone out of my way to hang NS at KVO and then to run ABX as a IVPB. Maybe we do things different in the ICU but in the ICUs I work we rarely run anything as a IVPB but everything has a bit of overfill that is mixed by pharmacy.

The overfill makes essentially no difference. If you've got a 50cc antibiotic bag, it may actually have up to 65cc of fluid in it, but the medication dose is the same. If you're losing 20cc with the flush and what remains in the line, you're wasting about a third of the medication whether it's got 50cc or 65cc.

Specializes in Acute Care Cardiac, Education, Prof Practice.
Infusion Nursing Society literature recommends running intermittent infusions as a secondary for the purpose of ensuring that the full dose of medication is delivered and also to maintain a closed system, which we know reduces infection risk.

When used for device maintenance, such as priming and flushing, NS isn't considered a medication, it's actually classified as a device. It's no different than flushing an IV before an after a medication, no MD order is needed.

I would congratulate your administrators for taking bold initiative in going against basic rationale and practice recommendations, particularly since they are now responsible for paying all costs associated with CL infections, or maybe not, maybe less snarky would be better.

Funny you mention the flushes before and after meds because my hospital was in the process of require an MD order for saline flushes, but it was primarily about getting the flushes into the system so we could charge them correctly.

Specializes in Critical Care.
I run all my gtts as primary. If the pt had MIVF and a gtt running as secondary, they do not get the ordered fluids. Not to mention, some gtts are too dangerous to run as secondary..

Fluids that should and shouldn't be run as secondaries (KCL infusions for instance) have been well defined for decades, I don't think there's any proposal to change that.

If you're concerned that getting ABO/NS at 100ml/hr instead of NS at 100cc/hr will make a clinically significant difference, then feel free to use a dedicated primary/secondary set up.

Specializes in Trauma Surgical ICU.
Fluids that should and shouldn't be run as secondaries (KCL infusions for instance) have been well defined for decades, I don't think there's any proposal to change that.

If you're concerned that getting ABO/NS at 100ml/hr instead of NS at 100cc/hr will make a clinically significant difference, then feel free to use a dedicated primary/secondary set up.

The question I answered was not referring to intermittent antibiotics but drips. Drips are continuous in most cases, so they should not be on a secondary or piggyback if the pt also has maintenance IVF running..

Specializes in Critical Care.
The question I answered was not referring to intermittent antibiotics but drips. Drips are continuous in most cases, so they should not be on a secondary or piggyback if the pt also has maintenance IVF running..
Secondaries are by definition are always intermittent, so whether or not a continuous infusion should run as a primary or secondary isn't really an option.

At my hospital if a pt does not have a primary running we use a 250 ml NS bag and attach abx as secondary lines and back prime them with the NS. We set the NS at KVO so when the abx is done it flushes the line and doesnt start beeping right away from air being in the line. This is the only hospital I have seen doing it this way and I think it makes more sense than running abx into the garbage to prime the line.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
This is extremely timely! I was going to post along these same lines... I have always run abx as secondary lines, when an abx is ordered I simply hang a primary of NS at KVO if none is currently running, and then run the abx as secondary, then flush through for an hour with NS on the primary, then turn it off. I can ask my MD for an order for a NS 100ml bag for this and they usually have no problem. However, our VP of nursing and I just got into a disagreement about this because she is "old-school" and doesn't understand why anyone would not just run the abx as a primary. When I tried to explain to her that 15-30ml of med is left in the primary tubing, not to mention you then need another primary tubing for each abx the pt is on, she wouldn't listen. And, in my unit, I have older nurses who still practice this way as well, ticking me off when I come on because I change it around.

I am currently trying to gather information/evidence that hanging a primary of NS with a secondary for the abx is the way to go.

My other question is, how does everyone out there run their drips? If I have a Lasix drip running at 5mg/hr (5ml/hr), would you run this as a secondary?

You are right in your rationale......;)except, I am old school and I have NEVER run IV antibiotics as a main line. I have always hung a 150 cc bag of saline to prime and flush before and after the antibiotic. They have fallen into bad habits.

In the old days we used buritrols for our IV's without pumps all hung with TKVO because we didn't have "heplocs"....Then we used heparin to flush the heplocs and had to flush with saline prior to and after meds then "heploc" with a heparinized saline solution when we were done.

If the patient was "fluid sensitive" only 50ml bag is used and minimal fluid is used if you don't. practicing medicine? I don't think so...... but if they say so I would get an order. There is always more that one way to skin a cat.

Lasix infusions etc are facility driven but are better when they are alone on a dedicated line to lessen errors. I have worked at facilities that require certain gtts to be "piggy backed" into a saline main line.

AND>...it is about the almighty dollar.

Specializes in Trauma Surgical ICU.

Lasix infusions etc are facility driven but are better when they are alone on a dedicated line to lessen errors

Thank you Esme, this was my point but I guess I wasn't clear :)

Specializes in Critical Care.

It's one of our more poorly defined terms, but "piggyback" typically refers to a secondary, not a primary that Y's into another primary. Continuous drips are always primary infusions, regardless of whether or not they Y into another continuous infusion such as a NS "carrier" line.

Specializes in Trauma Surgical ICU.
It's one of our more poorly defined terms, but "piggyback" typically refers to a secondary, not a primary that Y's into another primary. Continuous drips are always primary infusions, regardless of whether or not they Y into another continuous infusion such as a NS "carrier" line.

Agreed :) That is what I was saying or typing but maybe too tired to convey it correctly :)

Thanks for all your responses. There are other silly protocols starting like the fact we can no longer carry flushes in our pockets...I'm searching for a new gig but I've only been here six months so it may be difficult.

I plan to research the Infusion Nurses guidelines to present, but I doubt it will make much difference...but at least I can give them something to chew on.

Specializes in GI, ER, ICU, Med/Surg, Stress Test Nurse.

When our facility started using the alaris pumps the changed the way we hang our IV Abx. The Abx is hung as a primary and the saline is hung as a secondary that is if the patient doesnt have a continuous infusion of NS, LR, etc. the pump is programed to infuse all of the abx then a the saline is programmed to infuse 40 ml at the same rate the abx is programmed at so that the line is flushed of all abx and pt has received the entire dose. Our pharmacy initiated this. Sorry to hear that is happing at your facility.

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