A worn out topic

Nurses General Nursing

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Ok, I know the question has been posted over and over. I've not seen any real definitive information.

I recently witnessed a doctor who decided to saunter into the hospital to see a patient, and as he walked towards the patient's room he passed the nurses station and barked the question of who the patient's nurse was. Someone pointed and he used a jerky hand gesture to beckon the nurse to follow him...as one might a dog....

I've also seen a doctor walk to a nurses station and bark out the charts he needed...the charts were directly on the shelf in front of him.

I was told in nursing school to never give up your chair just because a doctor was present. I've seen nurses scramble out of the way to give a doctor their seat just because he was standing close by (and there were plenty of empty seats elsewhere)

My question is....is this not the year 2010? I sometimes feel like we're living in the 18th century.

No, really, my question is.... are doctors really our colleagues as some nurses have emphatically stated? Or are we their subordinates/pee ons ready to jump at their beck and call (and I can tell some doctors LOVE that and use it often)? I've noticed some doctors can't wait to rip into a nurse for every insignificant thing...and the nurse just stands there and takes it. So where is the line (please don't say there isn't one...there has to be an accountability line even if it's on the border of professionalism)?

I'm not a docile person, especially if there's a male barking orders at me...I tend to have a problem with that (and mind you, I understand reasonable and professionally communicated disagreements, but throwing charts..scoffing, rude language, calling names, making inappropriate references to a nurses' intelligence...I just feel like if they open the door, I have a right to slam their fingers in it ;-p )

Honest and objective opinions?

Specializes in LTC, Psych, Hospice.
this may be a bit off topic, but this post should have had a beverage alert. i've spewed diet coke all over my screen!

carry on.

lol, ruby vee! at least i only spewed water!:)

Specializes in ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89.

OK Pepsi spew alert

Y'a know the difference between G_D and a doctor?

G_D doesn't think He's a doctor.

drumroll.*******************

I am 8 months in and so far have only had one doctor act up with me. He was telling me I was wrong when he asked me about some clerical procedure that I had already told him I was unsure about but this is what I thought....He proceeded to speak loudly to me about how wrong I was. Took me a whole 3 seconds to say to him "since you seem so well versed on the subject, do it yourself" and I walked out of the patient's room and promptly returned to my charting. He came out behind me and told me he would not discharge the patient until "so and so" was done. I told him it did not matter to me one way or the other. All said in a very calm, matter of fact tone. He said this to me as I was sitting at my computer. I never even looked up at him. He stood there for a moment, then walked away and handled it himself as I had suggested. LOL!

Specializes in Med/Surg.

I have found that if you have all your ducks in a row when calling the doctor, especially for a change in condition, most of them are pretty professional. There are however rotten apples in every bunch. I have told a doctor that was rude to me once "Your patient has a change of condition, and it I must call you. I will be happy to forward you to my unit supervisor's voicemail once we are finished so you can take up this issue with her at your convienience."

Specializes in MPCU.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." George Orwell

Specializes in Med/Surg, DSU, Ortho, Onc, Psych.

I will tell you something I have never told anyone until now.

I was in a back office one day and was not deliberately hiding - I think I was using a computer in there cos mine had packed up, and I was waiting for it to be looked at. I had closed the door most of the way to get some peace and quiet. Well two doctors on rotation in the unit I was working in were talking, and didn't know I was there. From what I heard, (they were fairly young), they thought that all nurses were fat b*****s, who were sl*ts and who were unbelievably dense, and were laughing about the stupid nurses they had had to deal with.

I didn't care cos I wasn't a nurse then. But my impression was that they really do think they are a cut above everyone else. Dr's don't seem to see us as being on the same level as them, and my personal opinion is that they certainly don't see or treat us as professionals. We are just there to do the grunge work and ensure we run after them when they want info (in any form), or to do rounds so they don't have to be bothered with patient concerns too much.

Now I'm not bothered by any of it now. I am older and know my own worth. And I have worked with some fat, lazy, obnoxious nurses who do give nursing a bad name.

I am getting out of it all soon and I am sooo glad. It is a losing battle trying to be seen as a health professional. I have never felt like a nurse - even when I was supervising other staff - and have worked my butt off to make people and patients in our ailing health care system happy; now I realise I have to make MYSELF happy! I have now realised that Dr's especially won't give us the recognition we crave (unless you are a nurse with a Phd perhaps), not that that bothers me too much. But I have never thought nurses were seen as professionals - especially not by Dr's.

Specializes in PACU, OR.

I just give 'em the laaaazy eye...

Specializes in Utilization Review.
Without trying to steer this thread, how much of this behavior is sexism? Sure not all Dr's are male, and not all nurses are female, but huge percentages fall that way. Sad to say it seems to me like sometimes female Doc's are worse...kind of like they are still fighting for a spot in the "good ole boy network" so they have to prove they can be a "bas_____d" with the best of them.

I believe this may be at least part of the problem. And yes, we all know there are some female doctors and they can be mean, but they are relatively few. I also believe that new physicians get "broken in"--meaning they see more seasoned physicians treat nurses this way and nothing gets done, so the new guys think it's ok. I mean, I'm sure they share stories while playing golf of how they humiliated a nurse. Thing is...they have to get the message from SOMEONE that they MUST treat a nurse with the utmost respect and, lo and gasp, they are in fact NOT Gods. But who's going to teach them this if the behavior is overlooked, excused because people demand their time (AS IF NURSES DON'T GET PULLED IN ALL DIRECTIONS ALL DAY instead of a few minutes), or ignored....smh

No matter what's going on, or what they have to go through (nurses have to go through it too for much longer periods of time), we're not allowed to throw tantrums, but they are and we frown at the bad behavior behind their backs? One of the earlier responses said that "they're way up there and we're way down here"...sooo...I guess we are subordinates?

This is why I'm confused, I've been told that we're colleagues, but nurses' behavior and response to unacceptable behavior says different. :confused:

Specializes in LTC Family Practice.

Like CheyFire (great post btw), I graduated back in the dark ages (1972) and we were supposed get up and give the doc a chair, the "head nurse" or floor super was the only one who usually talked to the doc and relayed info and "rounded" with them. We were to be seen and not heard unless spoken too.

That all changed for me in the late 70's when I went to work at a university clinic staffed by interns and residents and according to the chief of staff doc we were there to protect the patients from them and his door was always open. Oh and by that time I was married to a med student who became one of those dreaded docs:rolleyes:.

Over the years I have perfected the "stink eye" and none of the docs want that directed at them so they usually behave;)

Specializes in M/S, Travel Nursing, Pulmonary.
Ok, I know the question has been posted over and over. I've not seen any real definitive information.

I recently witnessed a doctor who decided to saunter into the hospital to see a patient, and as he walked towards the patient's room he passed the nurses station and barked the question of who the patient's nurse was. Someone pointed and he used a jerky hand gesture to beckon the nurse to follow him...as one might a dog....

I've also seen a doctor walk to a nurses station and bark out the charts he needed...the charts were directly on the shelf in front of him.

I was told in nursing school to never give up your chair just because a doctor was present. I've seen nurses scramble out of the way to give a doctor their seat just because he was standing close by (and there were plenty of empty seats elsewhere)

My question is....is this not the year 2010? I sometimes feel like we're living in the 18th century.

No, really, my question is.... are doctors really our colleagues as some nurses have emphatically stated? Or are we their subordinates/pee ons ready to jump at their beck and call (and I can tell some doctors LOVE that and use it often)? I've noticed some doctors can't wait to rip into a nurse for every insignificant thing...and the nurse just stands there and takes it. So where is the line (please don't say there isn't one...there has to be an accountability line even if it's on the border of professionalism)?

I'm not a docile person, especially if there's a male barking orders at me...I tend to have a problem with that (and mind you, I understand reasonable and professionally communicated disagreements, but throwing charts..scoffing, rude language, calling names, making inappropriate references to a nurses' intelligence...I just feel like if they open the door, I have a right to slam their fingers in it ;-p )

Honest and objective opinions?

Its a tricky situation. One one hand, nothing is more fun that putting a "God syndrome" MD back in their place, providing a usually long overdue dose of reality. Even if you are simply being respectful but at the same time demanding respect, sometimes it can turn into a bit of a tiff with these types.

On the other hand, I must admit.............the hospitals that have mastered catering to the doctors are the one's that do well. Thats my experience anyway. My current hospital continues to have financial issues and no small part of the reason is...........we can't attract the right physicians.

I think most experienced nurses will tell you remain respectful, but don't be a door mat yourself. This does not mean become cavalier about it and start targeting every physician who thinks they are Gods walking among us. Ignore them, don't follow them when they "beacon like one would a dog" or fetch things for them. They'll complain, but eventually they get the point.

Every time I read one of these threads, I reflect on how lucky I am in choosing the environment that I did straight out of nursing school.

The very, very worst thing I have ever gotten from a doc is a look of sad disappointment when I f'd up something. I tell you, that look is way more effective than any tirade could be. That look says, "I expected so much more from you as a critical care nurse," AKA "son, I am disappoint."

A tirade or assault would just put me in "Oh no you didn't" mode. But that look...I've only gotten it a time or two, and that was more than enough.

Specializes in Telemetry, Med/Surg.

You summed it up so well! I was once told to remember that all people are equal in the beginning, coming into the world helpless and naked. It's easier to level the playing field when confronted with arrogance and nasty attitudes!

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