4.0 GPA ...Great memorizing abilities.Yes...Good thinking/reasoning skills maybe not! - page 3

I've notice alot of posts regarding NS drop outs! Whats going on? Can it be that the instructors aren't competent enough? Is it that many students have other responsiblities besides NS( families,... Read More

  1. by   banditrn
    I really don't know how it is today, but back when I was in my first year, thru a community college, I took english comp. with some girls who were to be in the next years class. We traded papers a few times, and I was horrified that a couple of these gals could barely write, let alone compose a sentance!

    I talked to my nursing instructor about it, and she said that was the way it was with the community college program. First come, first serve - then later, if some people couldn't cut the program, they would drop out, leaving an empty space.

    Maybe it's different now - and it should be. Nursing can be hard - the education has to measure up.
  2. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from JBudd
    A class I had partially dealt with how to choose applicants. Five groups were given the same lists of "applicants", we were told that we needed minority representation, liklihood of completing the program, that people involved in their community were more likely to stay there, etc etc etc.

    With exactly the same criterion, list of applicants, requirements etc, all our groups overlapped on only 5 "student" choices out of 30 (we had 60 to choose from). Within our own group we argued and fussed and argued some more before we agreed on our 30 choices. Its not an easy process to pick and choose among so many "qualified" applicants, and that was just an exercise! Sometimes getting in will be on how your application struck someone's fancy that day.
    This is why I say consistency is needed. if all programs were as tough as Marie's would appear to be, then so be it. At least we would be consistent, and perhaps attrition rates would drop permanently.
  3. by   santhony44
    As other posters have said, not everyone who says "I want to be a nurse" needs to become a nurse!

    Most people I've known personally who didn't make it shouldn't have. I've also known some who failed and came back later and did great- it took the failure to get them to take it seriously and to realize that it really was what they wanted to do. I've also known some who dropped out for various reasons to come back later and finish. One guy quit in his senior year to take care of his terminally ill dad after his mother died suddenly. His dad died two weeks after he would have graduated and he didn't regret it for a second. He came back the next year and graduated with me, and wherever he's at, he's a great nurse!

    A shortage of nursing faculty is a problem. I interviewed for an ADN program instructor job four or five years ago. Great school, great program, really liked the faculty I met. I would've had to take a 50 percent pay cut to do it! (And they made it clear that working a second job was not acceptable). I was really disappointed. I realized then why there was a shortage in faculty! Most nurses I know couldn't afford to teach.
  4. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from banditrn
    I really don't know how it is today, but back when I was in my first year, thru a community college, I took english comp. with some girls who were to be in the next years class. We traded papers a few times, and I was horrified that a couple of these gals could barely write, let alone compose a sentance!

    I talked to my nursing instructor about it, and she said that was the way it was with the community college program. First come, first serve - then later, if some people couldn't cut the program, they would drop out, leaving an empty space.

    Maybe it's different now - and it should be. Nursing can be hard - the education has to measure up.
    No, it's not like that in the community college programs of today. The ability to communicate verbally and in written form is an absolute necessity if one is to graduate at all, in most programs, whether they be BSN or ADN.

    As an aside, I know of one or two people who hold master's degrees that cannot seem to write effective communication; these being rife with mis-spelled words and horrid syntax. I think NOBODY should graduate college writing as poorly as some of these folks do. How embarassing.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Oct 22, '06
  5. by   RNsoon!
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    It's extremely rare. And most schools have in place grievance processes whereby a student can fight for reinstatement. I just don't buy that it's due to incompetent instructors that students fail. I will concede there ARE instructors out there who maybe should not be, but I cannot believe this is the primary reason a student would fail and wash out.. Nope. Usually, the student has done (or not done) plenty to get him/herself removed from nursing school. Again, ownership is critical if one is to become any kind of decent nurse. I find the opposite often true; in many cases, it can be hard to get rid of people who should not be nurses, yet have done nothing serious enough to wash out or be removed. I have met plenty of nurses that make me wonder how on Earth they graduated and I would not want to touch me or my loved ones.

    LOL..
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Merged two threads covering very similar topics.

    To the OP: if you are having troubles with nursing school, it would be a good idea to work with your instructors to get some help and improve your situation. If you are a pre-nursing student having a hard time getting in, I feel for you. But you are not alone. All in all, you have received some very sage, solid advice (in all your threads) on what to do and how to cope with the way thing are today.

    I wish you luck. Only you can act to improve things for yourself, in the end. No one else can do it for you. Take care.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Oct 22, '06
  7. by   EricJRN
    I think that assessing critical thinking is part of what nursing schools want to know about you, but critical thinking is more likely measured by the standardized testing that people take for admission to their programs, not by the GPA.

    The real value of a GPA, as I see it, is to tell nursing schools that you're someone who will do whatever it takes to get the job done. Nursing school will likely be the hardest, most time-consuming endeavor of an applicant's life, so if an applicant wasn't able to put in enough effort to get more than a C in English or history, how will they ever survive in the tougher clinical nursing courses?

    I think many schools look at GPA and work ethic as going hand in hand.
  8. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    The problem with some of the nursing schools is that too many of the "4.0" students have only taken Chemistry, API and APII, and too many of them took those classes one at a time. I think that is a huge factor in their dropout rate b/c they are so focused on the GPA that once they get in, they can't handle a full class load.
    :angryfire
  9. by   smk1
    A high GPA may not be the most accurate examination of a students capabilities, but it does show a history. Nursing schools need students who can pass their courses and the NCLEX after graduation. To do this you need to be a good test taker. That is just the way it is. A person with a good GPA from the prerequisite coursework has shown that at the very least, they are somewhat responsible, have an understanding of the information and can take and pass a test well. Interviews and essays may give a more rounded representation, but there is no getting away from the test heavy courses in nursing school. There is no easy answer, but I know that at our school at least they researched the students who were doing well in the nursing program and found that the vast majority were ones who had an overall "higher" gpa, and did very well in the science prereqs. Based on this reaseach, they changed their admission standards from "waitlist" to a point system based upon you overall GPA and a weighted science GPA. Yes we still have students who fail out or must drop, but according to the faculty it is not as big a loss as it used to be.
  10. by   Halinja
    Quote from Freedom42
    how many of these dropouts are people who are in fact well-qualified for admission but find out that, for one reason or another, conclude that nursing simply isn't for them?

    some are already talking about dropping out because they're unhappy with the liberal arts requirements (and accompanying expense) for a BSN.

    And there are many students like me, people seeking second careers who find that they didn't know as much about nursing as they thought they did. That first semester is a real eye-opener. I'm sure there are plenty of others who realize they're simply not willing to make the commitment to intense studying.
    Yes on all three!!!!

    We had a couple of people drop out the first week. They hadn't realized they might have to touch dead people.

    I have a neighbor who wanted to be a nurse...until she found out she would have to take Psychology, and Anthropology..."why would a nurse need those???"

    And then, there are the people who thought that nursing would be 'easy'. The strange image society has of nursing. These are intelligent people, (4.0 sometimes) but didn't realize at all what it was going to be like.
  11. by   kadokin
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    I couldn't agree with you more. The problem with some of the nursing schools is that too many of the "4.0" students have only taken Chemistry, API and APII, and too many of them took those classes one at a time. I think that is a huge factor in their dropout rate b/c they are so focused on the GPA that once they get in, they can't handle a full class load.

    I'm not saying that everyone that has a 4.0 did it like that, but I've seen it alot. Too much.

    I went to college with a girl whose father was a very high up in IBM. IBM is a company that will not consider most applicants that don't have a minimum of a 3.5, but if you have a 4.0, they don't want to hire you either because in their experience, they tend not to work well with others.
    I did NOT know that entities looking for employees could access said potetial employees' student transcripts. For whatever reason, I just assumed that was either illegal or unethical. ?????????? My son is in his first year @ a prestigious engineering program and some of his more experienced peers are warning him that GPA is destiny when it comes to the hiring process. Seriously, your potential employer can ask for your transcripts?? Who knew??
  12. by   kadokin
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    No, it's not like that in the community college programs of today. The ability to communicate verbally and in written form is an absolute necessity if one is to graduate at all, in most programs, whether they be BSN or ADN.

    As an aside, I know of one or two people who hold master's degrees that cannot seem to write effective communication; these being rife with mis-spelled words and horrid syntax. I think NOBODY should graduate college writing as poorly as some of these folks do. How embarassing.
    I second that. It is amazing!
  13. by   romie
    Certainly a good nursing program will have several tools in place to help the admissions committee identify good candidates. "First come, first serve" type admissions or lotteries are not going to identify the best people. Any application needs to be well balanced with admissions essays, resumes demonstrating relevant work/ volunteer experiences and in-person interviews. I am curious how many ADN/ diploma programs actually interview prospective candidates and ask the hard questions like: How do you handle stress? Nursing school is hard, how can we be sure you will stick with this program? Do you have a realistic picture of what nurses do and what nursing school is like?

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