"I Come Into Work Sick! Why Can't You?"

[Plagueis]

The quote I used for this thread is a paraphrase of something that I've heard many times at work. The people who say this are usually angry that a nurse or CNA called out sick, thereby leaving the job short staffed. They often say that they have come to work with a migraine, fever, or flu, for example, so how dare a nurse/CNA call out for something "minor," like a headache or stomach pains. One coworker even said that by agreeing to work in the nursing field, you should know that work will often be short staffed if you call out sick, so CNAs should stop being "wimpy" and "selfish" and come into work sick. I have also seen many coworkers who are nurses and CNAs at work with an obvious illness, such as nonstop coughing, sneezing, and some who have admitted to having a fever. I don't think it is good for the patients to have someone who is ill working around them, nor do I think that a sick employee should be made to feel guilty for calling in sick. Therefore, I was wondering: is this attitude about coming into or calling out of work sick common where any of you work? Also, exactly how sick is "too sick" to come into work?

[Plagueis]

A friend of mine got a "verbal warning" that was written (if that makes any sense) where a pattern of call outs was falsely detected. There was no pattern, she was simply sick. If the hospital gives you the time for sick time, then it should be taken when one is sick without fear of retribution. If I'm out, I'm sick enough for the doctor and I always get a note.

Personally, it bothers me when sick coworkers come to work and cough all over the phone, sinks, computers etc. I'd rather work short handed for a day or two then catch whatever is going around and have to take my own sick time (which inevitably falls on a weekend so it looks bad). You just can't win.

Blee

Thanks, everyone, for your posts. At my place, we have paid sick time (2 weeks), but if someone calls out on a weekend, they have to bring in a doctor's note. If not, that person gets a verbal warning. It progresses to a written warning, then a few days suspension, I believe. As far as workers coming in sick, I don't like the idea of someone at work coughing and sneezing around me, which not only makes me more likely to get sick (and then I have to call out), but can affect the residents who are not sick, too. I just don't understand how a nurse/CNA would blame the person who called out sick for the short-staffing at work. If a hospital or nursing home has paid sick days, then they should take into account that EVERYONE gets sick once in a while, so they should make sure they have the staffing to cover when that happens. It is the hospital or nursing homes' responsibility for staffing, not the employees.

[gitterbug]

Earned sick time is to be taken when sickness occurs. It is unrealistic to think we never need a day off, sick or not, so I am sure call-ins happen when its more emotional than physical. I never cared when someone called in, sick or not, it was their pay-check, their decision.

How many of you get sent home early when census drops? Called off for low census? Come on, there are bigger issues in nursing than who uses or abuses sick time.

[SaraO'Hara]

I feel bad because I've missed a few days work due to a rash, especially because I've only been working since late May - but what can I do? I don't want to leave my co-workers in the lurch, but I don't want to get somebody else sick.

[glasgow3]

Unfortunately this issue is one of many common disatisfiers in nursing. I'm old enough to remember when sick time, vacation time and holidays were most often accounted for individually rather than as a combined Paid Time Off. The combined PTO was always "sold" to the employees as "your time to do with as you pleased" "if you don't need the time to cover personal or family illness then you can use the extra time for vacation etc etc".

But in practice as other posters have noted at many facilities obtaining permission to actually USE that time can be problematic. So they access that time the only way they can: by calling in sick.

Management often feels that they can identify patterns of abuse. They point out that an employee calls out on weekends or the day before a weekend or the day after------well yes that may be true, but those supposed high abuse days when combined make up the majority of the week. Reminds me of the old joke in HR where the Manager "discovered" that his M-F office staff's call-ins occured 40% of the time on the day before or after a weekend and this "abuse" would have to stop.

Of course, the attempts at countercontrol never end. For example, at my facility, if you call in on a weekend, physician validated illness or not, you must make up the missed days on the following weekend. And missing 3 consecutive days of work at any time requires a physician's note before you can return to work. And you can have only 3 episodes of illness within a "rolling" calendar year. Now tell me another profession with similarly onerous sick time policies.

Obviously call-ins may have an adverse effect upon staffing----but they needn't. That is what float pools, agencies and incentives are for: to adequately staff for those times when regular employees are using the paid time off benefits they have earned/accrued (and for unusual spikes in patient census). Short staffing should NOT be an option.

And working 8 hours when not feeling well is challenging enough. But many of us have no option to 12 hour shifts these days. We're expected to be customer oriented and to perform flawlessly.

The expectation that we as nurses should work even when we are ill is insane, yet all too common.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

40% of your scheduled work days fall next to your weekend. (Assuming a 5 day work week):chuckle

[Sheri257]

I worked sick for a month because students who were expected to work as aides in addition to externships were being written up for calling out sick on their aide days but, conveniently, they weren't calling out sick on their extern days.

Then I ended up getting written up anyway by night shift for one day when they gave me an impossible patient load so ... I quit. Even though I was very tempted to call out on my last aide day, I didn't.

Nevertheless, it took me three months to get paid .... luckily I copied my time card but I still had to send three letters before I got paid. If I hadn't thought to copy my time card, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been paid.

Obviously it wasn't worth working sick. They didn't appreciate it ... at all.

:typing

[guardwife]

I remember getting so sick during my first year as a RN on a Pulmonary Care Unit. Luckily I worked 12 hr shifts and had enough days to get on my feet. The only one time that I called in sick in 14 months, I called in 8 hrs before my shift was going to start after spending the night in the bathroom. I got a call one hour from the charge nurse before my shift to see if I was "really sick". I was steamed !!

[natrgrrl]

Does being too depressed to come to work count as being sick? A friend of mine was a walking zombie 99% of the time but she still went to work. I don't know how she could do her job. I know she took unnecessary risks.

[truern]

Coincidentally I just missed two days this week after catching some bug. I worked the first day feeling like something the dog threw up, but just could not make it to work the last two days. My NM couldn't have been nicer!! She asked me how was I feeling several times the day I came back and explained that my immune system would get stronger over time. EVERYBODY was nothing but concerned for me.

The more I read here the more convinced I am I've found a job in heaven :)

[Schatzi RN CEN]

We ask visitors to not see our patients when they themselves are feeling ill. We as nurses are usually in much closer contact to the patients and should not expose them to our illnesses in addition to what is wrong with the patient in the first place.

I agree that sick time is often abused, but one of the hospitals I work for has an attendance requirement as one of the points of the annual evaluation (along with meeting personal goals, chart audits, mandatory education and absence of disciplinary action). An employee can miss one of the categories and still be an "A" employee, but if striving to be a valued employee, this should make them keep unnecessary sick time to a minimum.

[Rocknurse, MSN, APRN, NP]

I live and work in England and to some extent it is different here.

As a senior staff nurse I have sent people home as I considered them too sick to be at work, they would have been putting my patients at risk catching their condition.

Also if you go into work sick and something goes wrong BECAUSE you are sick there is no come back for you. I thought that in the US that would be a sueable offence.

Sick time is totally different in England though. You can take a sick day whenever you need it and you aren't "assigned" a set number of days that you can use for sick or holidays. Over here you can get a measly 14 days a year to use for that which is rubbish compared to the UK. In England if I felt unwell I'd just take a day off and no one ever said a word about it. You just got covered by agency or bank. Over here take a sick day and you're thought of as a slacker. The more time off you have (i.e.: the sicker you are) the less likely they will let you come back to work without a myriad of tests and ridiculous paperwork.

I hurt my back at work in March. I was unable to even get off the couch and it was an ordeal just to get to the bathroom...there was no way I could work as I couldn't even walk. I was off sick for a month and I even attended my own hospital as a patient as I naively thought they would be able to see how geunine my injury was. I saw 5 different doctors and had physical therapy, all at my own hospital. I was refused Worker's Comp and my insurance company refused to pay for an MRI which I ended up having as an emergency in the ER. When I tried to come back to work I asked the Employee Health doctor to let me come back light duty, and he told me they wouldn't let me come back light duty as I wasn't fully able to function. I could work and do my job but I didn't feel like I could lift or push beds yet. I had to pretend I was fine to let them let me come back to work. I had kept my boss informed of every doctors appointment and all progress but she would never return my calls. Then two weeks after I returned I was fired from my position on a bunch of BS unsubstantiated charges. Then they had the cheek to send me a bill for my MRI scan as they said it wasn't urgent after all, despite the fact I had symptoms that indicated nerve damage.

It was a nasty experience, and thankfully I have another job now, but I long for the days in England when I could call in sick if I needed to and know my job was secure. Sick time in the USA sucks. I wish you could all experience what it's like in other countries, and you'd never stand for this kind of treatment anymore.

[JinJerEvansRN]

I believe that you should take a sick day if you need it, no problem. Some of the coworkers I have continually call in, and everyone knows that they can't be sick.

I used to work as a Supervisor for a very big company, (not anything to do with nursing), and if you called in sick and were out of sick time, I had to call the person and tell them they had to come in or be written up. That was the policy.

I would like to see facilities give back to the employees who don't abuse sick time. I think it would be great to give the employees a check for at least some of the sick time they did not use at the end of the year, you know before Christmas, as an incentive to not call in when you just don't feel like going to work.

I also think that management should deal with the ones that are frequently calling in no matter what. It is ridiculous to just let them slide! My facility lets a lot slide, but I still love working there.