RN to Paramedic Bridge Course - page 12

I'm wondering if any of you might know of a RN to Paramedic bridge course. I'd like to get my certification as a Paramedic, but don't want to have to through a whole year of school to do it! Let me... Read More

  1. by   TraumaSurfer
    Quote from Ace587RN
    Lots of good information in this thread . Im also an ED RN looking into pre hospital medicine just to volunteer at my local FD. im from FL and i was told i could challenge the paramedic exam after getting my EMT. Anyone else from FL here? i have BCLS, ACLS, PALS, TNCC already
    Yes you can challenge the Paramedic after EMT. All the info is on the DOH website.
    EMS Home


    The exam is only the written part and what makes it different from the NR is it asks specific questions about state specific trauma, DNR and IFT protocols which can also be found on the website. Definitely read the statutes also.

    Division of Emergency Medical Operations - Home


    If you feel you need a quick review, take a cheap Paramedic refresher course at one of the community colleges or state votechs. Don't pay a huge price at the private medic mills. You can also find a refresher online.

    EMS Free Course Search

    Testing and Training Resources - Bureau of Emergency Medical Services


    If every FF in Florida can pass the test, a decent ED RN should be able to.

    The EMT will give you the basics of the ambulance. The only skill you might fall short on is intubation but many student Paramedics don't get that opportunity either. You will find there are practicing Paramedics who have never intubated or haven't since doing one in school. If you get on with a decent flight or specialty program after some ICU experience, they will get you into an OR or ED to get some intubations.

    I also recommend taking a basic and advanced burn courses through a burn center and taught by burn RNs and doctors. Of course for EMS you might have a simpler protocol for burns but if you do CCT or Flight with the RN credential, you may expected to do more.
  2. by   getoverit
    Quote from TraumaSurfer
    What "surgical" procedures are you talking about? Flight RNs can preform every "skill" that a Paramedic can. They can also manage many more pieces of equipment and medications which Paramedics can not. They can also do other invasive procedures such as UAC/UVC and chest tubes which a Paramedic can not due to limitations in their scope of practice.



    Obviously you are a firefighter and don't have much experience as a nurse or maybe just in a very limited area. You feel you must defend your position as a really exciting firefighter by downplaying what a nurse can do. You seem have very limited knowledge about what a nurse does and probably are not qualified to give advice except for the ass kissing attitude part which firefighters practice everyday with their superiors, politicians and the unions especially at election time.



    In California, most firefighters are Paramedics because it only requires about 1000 hours of training and only 40 ALS patient contacts which can be as little as an IV or a 12 lead performed if the service even does that. Many don't even do 12 lead EKGs and if they do, they rely solely on machine interpretation. In California, LA is a great example of that because it is too much trouble to teach over 2000 FD Paramedics how to look for ST elevation. Since FFs may be required to have the Paramedic cert at the time of application or within 1 year of hire, the FF really doesn't need to have an interest in patient care but rather just meet the minimum requirements for the job and that is not all that difficult to do. This is not only true of California but many other states as well which are largely Fire based EMS. But, California is not the state to boast what a Paramedic can do since they have one of the most limited scope of practice of any state which is why RNs are used for Flight and CCT as well as at hospital base stations to read the protocols to the Paramedics.

    However, there are those who prefer to fight fires, sleep, watch TV, go shopping, and hang at the fire station fixing up with new recipes for what to cook the guys rather than being at the beside doing patient care to several patients for 12 hours without a break. A private ambulance will probably transport the patient so the FFs can go back to cooking and sleeping. The benefits with the FD are great even at the expense of a city closing schools or filing bankruptcy while trying to fulfill those benefit and wage requirements. There are also not many jobs, especially not in nursing, that allow you to work back to back 24 hour shifts or over 9 straight as some of the headlines have indicated in some cities. Making over $200k while sleeping sounds like a great deal and if a nurse is tired of doing patient care then they should consider being a FD Paramedic.
    As an RN/REMT-P with about 20 years of experience in both hospital and fire departments, I have to say that your post is one of the most ignorant statements I have read on this website. I doubt you were being facetious, if you were...then my apologies. Otherwise, you would be wise to know what you're talking about before showing your ignorance. I'd be happy to have an intelligent discussion with you about this....but the key word is intelligent. If you can't, then don't respond.
  3. by   TraumaSurfer
    Quote from getoverit
    As an RN/REMT-P with about 20 years of experience in both hospital and fire departments, I have to say that your post is one of the most ignorant statements I have read on this website. I doubt you were being facetious, if you were...then my apologies. Otherwise, you would be wise to know what you're talking about before showing your ignorance. I'd be happy to have an intelligent discussion with you about this....but the key word is intelligent. If you can't, then don't respond.
    Care to come up with something intelligent as a rebuttal instead of just name calling?

    Please feel free to pick my post apart and attempt to argue each statement. But, you might want to back up what you type with proof. I can back up my statements with sources such as the California state EMS website. For salaries I can also back them up since some FDs have had to post what their FFs have made when they have come into question. And what would you like to discuss about the IAFF?
  4. by   getoverit
    To begin with: you haven't been called a name. I made a comment about the content of your post, if you choose to take it as a personal insult that's your prerogative. Although your original response definitely resorted to name calling and what could be tantamount to slander, again...your prerogative.
    paramedics and nurses in my flight program all take ATLS together. You'll find very few programs that allow an RN to place a chest tube. And for UVC/UAC lines, most of the nurses placing those are on the neonatal transport team. I've never known a nurse to place one that wasn't on the team. that being said, I was on that team as well, got trained in placing them and was certainly allowed to..but I defer to someone with more experience because a critical newborn isn't a teaching opportunity in my opinion.
    Your comments about the "ass kissing attitude part which firefighters practice everyday with their superiors, politicians and the unions especially at election time." is absurd at best. I don't know if you tried to be a FF and couldn't hack it, no one wanted you on their department or what, but I'd like to see you walk into my fire station and say something stupid like that. I have plenty of friends who would help you through the door.
    I won't argue that paramedics are a step in the pay grade of fire department personnel, I don't live in California but I understand that's true. But to say that paramedics and FF are basically lazy, aren't interested in taking care of patients, only want to sleep, trade recipes, go shopping, etc is an ignorant statement and hardly reflective of the fire service on a nation-wide level. You may have had bad experiences with some departments in the past but to generalize like that is both unfair and untrue.
    since you have to back your statements up by the CA EMS website makes me believe your "knowledge and insight" is limited to second-hand information with no actual personal experience.
    I won't argue about salaries or the IAFF, because those things are immaterial to me.
    I don't know if you're an ER, ICU nurse or what...but if I said "All ER nurses are lazy, don't want to take care of someone for 12 solid hours, need direct supervision from an MD at all times, only like to shop, etc...." or something ridiculous like that I would imagine that you and many other nurses would rightfully take offense to that. Because it would be ignorant. No different than your post and my response.
  5. by   getoverit
    Your quote: In California, LA is a great example of that because it is too much trouble to teach over 2000 FD Paramedics how to look for ST elevation.

    http://file.lacounty.gov/bos/supdocs/17749.pdf

    I thought that sounded bogus, so you can click on this link and read the grant to establish 12 lead EKG training for the 242 LAFD paramedics (about 1/10 as many as you claim there are....and they do 12 leads).

    Also, you state that flight RNs can "also manage many more pieces of equipment and medications which Paramedics can not" I'd like to know which pieces of equipment you are referring to. There hasn't been a piece of equipment used in any aircraft I've worked in that wasn't familiar to both the medic and the nurse. Except some nurses weren't comfortable with the ventilator, some medics weren't comfortable with the IABP...but that's a far cry from not being able to manage equipment like you claim.
    As for medications, the nurse and the paramedic can both administer any medication on the formulary in the aircraft. Again, I don't live in CA so I'm sure things are different as you go around the country.
    You wanted me to "attempt" to refute your claims and back them up with fact. I just did.
  6. by   TraumaSurfer
    Quote from getoverit
    your quote: in california, la is a great example of that because it is too much trouble to teach over 2000 fd paramedics how to look for st elevation.

    http://file.lacounty.gov/bos/supdocs/17749.pdf

    i thought that sounded bogus, so you can click on this link and read the grant to establish 12 lead ekg training for the 242 lafd paramedics (about 1/10 as many as you claim there are....and they do 12 leads).
    only 242 paramedics with lafd? la is rather large.

    here's a quote from that department. for the actual article you'll have to sign in to the archives. however, if you put the quote into a search engine, you'll find it has been discussed many times.

    http://www.jems.com/emsinsider/25-2/278377/

    "but we have 2,500 paramedics [and 27 provider agencies] in l.a. county," rokos said, "and obviously we can't train everyone to read ecgs." so los angeles county has paramedics rely on an automated computer ecg interpretation. "all they have to do is read ***acute mi, and that's their ticket to go," he said.

    this is one of dr. rokos lectures. notice his reference to automated computer ecg interpretaton in it.
    http://www.naemsp.org/documents/rokosnaemsp.08.v5.pdf

    Quote from getoverit
    also, you state that flight rns can "also manage many more pieces of equipment and medications which paramedics can not" i'd like to know which pieces of equipment you are referring to. there hasn't been a piece of equipment used in any aircraft i've worked in that wasn't familiar to both the medic and the nurse. except some nurses weren't comfortable with the ventilator, some medics weren't comfortable with the iabp...but that's a far cry from not being able to manage equipment like you claim.
    as for medications, the nurse and the paramedic can both administer any medication on the formulary in the aircraft. again, i don't live in ca so i'm sure things are different as you go around the country.
    you wanted me to "attempt" to refute your claims and back them up with fact. i just did.
    you can find the scope of practice for paramedics on the internet. those who may be allowed to do more may have petitioned for more privileges but in many cases like flight, it is a mixed team with an rn included. note there are differences between monitoring, initiating and titrating.

    california
    basic scope of practice
    http://www.emsa.ca.gov/paramedic/files/scopechart.pdf

    advanced scope of practice
    http://www.emsa.ca.gov/paramedic/files/scopechart.pdf

    iabp and ventilators other than a little atv are not within their scope per the state.

    iowa
    http://www.idph.state.ia.us/ems/comm...f_practice.pdf

    notice some just say monitoring or assist only.

    ohio
    http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/lin...actice0608.pdf

    [font=timesnewromanpsmt][font=timesnewromanpsmt][font=timesnewromanpsmt][font=timesnewromanpsmt]the scope of this document includes all transports in which the highest level of training of the personnel in the[font=timesnewromanpsmt]
    [font=timesnewromanpsmt][font=timesnewromanpsmt][font=timesnewromanpsmt]transport vehicle is an emt-paramedic. the addition of the registered nurse to the crew creates a mobile intensive care unit which is qualified to transport critical patients as legislated in section 4766.01 of the ohio revised code and rule 4766-4-12 of the ohio administrative code.[font=timesnewromanpsmt]



    [font=timesnewromanpsmt][font=timesnewromanpsmt]paramedics and nurses in my flight program all take atls together. you'll find very few programs that allow an rn to place a chest tube.

    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]

    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]anybody can take atls. but, the certification is ony given to doctors. you will find very, very few states that even consider allowing a paramedic to do a chest tubes. there are also not that many flight programs when compared to ground ambulances so yes, there are not that many rns inserting chest tubes. but that may still be more than the number of paramedics allowed to do so in any given state. i can only think of a handful of ems agencies that still have that skill in their protocols even if the state recognizes it.


    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]
    and for uvc/uac lines, most of the nurses placing those are on the neonatal transport team. i've never known a nurse to place one that wasn't on the team. that being said, i was on that team as well, got trained in placing them and was certainly allowed to..but i defer to someone with more experience because a critical newborn isn't a teaching opportunity in my opinion.

    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]it is a speciatly and since paramedics do not work in the nicu. you probably will find they are not part of a neonatal team except to drive. and of course the nurses on a neonatal transport team will place uac/uvcs since neonates are transported by a team that specializes in neonates. those rns will practice placing the uvc/uacs in the icu. they don't wait until they get on an ambulance or helicopter before they trial it. you should just call any available ambulance for premature infant. i believe there was a service in florida that found that out the hard way and since then states have started making sure the right people for the job takes a baby. emtala has already addressed "proper and qualified transport team" but that is sometimes overlooked with lights, sirens and speed making up for the lack of proper training.


    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]
    but to say that paramedics and ff are basically lazy, aren't interested in taking care of patients, only want to sleep, trade recipes, go shopping, etc is an ignorant statement and hardly reflective of the fire service on a nation-wide level. you may have had bad experiences with some departments in the past but to generalize like that is both unfair and untrue.


    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]is it really that untrue? why do you think many paramedics want to join the fd? do you think they enjoy working 24 hours without a station and transporting all calls...not just the 911 calls. and, the private paramedics transport the patients while the fd returns back to the station. are you going to try to tell everyone here that the ffs brown bag it to work? are you going to say no fire truck is every seen at a coffee house or grocery? this is not just one isolated little department. yes, there are some very busy fds but i have worked in one that was really great and i was able to get all my studying done to move on since fighting fires was not my passion. i have visited other departments around the country and have been able to have a very enjoyable visit. i have also attended many open houses for fds to show off their kitchens, bar-b-que grills and big screen tvs to the public so they too can see where their tax dollars are going.


    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]maybe you should get involved more in your community to see what is going on around you. do you own your home and pay property taxes? do you vote?



    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]
    your comments about the "ass kissing attitude part which firefighters practice everyday with their superiors, politicians and the unions especially at election time." is absurd at best. i don't know if you tried to be a ff and couldn't hack it, no one wanted you on their department or what, but i'd like to see you walk into my fire station and say something stupid like that. i have plenty of friends who would help you through the door.



    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]if you read carefully you will see the "kiss ass attitude" was a reflection from mayren's post. but, you do display a typical thug mentality which the union must have instilled into you. it is this violent attitude which the ffs come up with when they feel someone dares to question them or hold them accountable. and let me emphasize "question" with no one threatening you with violence. how many statements have we heard about hoping their houses burn down or their kids drown when they hear about cut backs in expenses? way too many times. how many times do they run their own scandalous information or propoganda to make a point? how many times have you seen ffs in front of the coffee houses and groceries handing out literature with all the dramatics and none of the facts on them? unless you live in a small perfect community you should have ran across this unless you want to believe the fd is perfect. fact is the fds are struggling to survive and must rely on ems which many ffs prefer not to do but must get the paramedic cert and rotate on als trucks.


    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]some examples:

    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]here's a very professional website by a firefighter who is against a private ambulance service.

    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]http://evacsucks.com/







    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]here's another mud slinging site sponsored by ffs directed at a private service.

    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]http://firetransport.com/





    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]headlines everywhere










    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]of course who can forget the mess in stockton, alameda, ca and collier county florida where the ff/paramedics felt they did not need a medical director or be held accountable to the standards set forth by the medial director.



    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]here are a few good articles about salaries.










    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]
    i won't argue about salaries or the iaff, because those things are immaterial to me.


    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]you're a ff. don't you belong to a union? don't you at least know what the iaff is or what it has or has not done for you as a ff? how about the ems or paramedic part since this is a forum with medical professionals? again, i believe you need to see past your bubble.


    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]"all er nurses are lazy, don't want to take care of someone for 12 solid hours, need direct supervision from an md at all times, only like to shop, etc...." or something ridiculous like that i would imagine that you and many other nurses would rightfully take offense to that. because it would be ignorant. no different than your post and my response.

    [font=timesnewromanpsmt]here you are just trying to start problems. i did not say all. i gave advice on a career change and there are definitely many fds where someone can do all the things i stated in my post. i bet you are even typing your responses to my posts while on the tax payers dollar on a nice computer in a comfy chair at the fire station. rns also know what direct supervision means and don't take always take offense as some emts and paramedics who feel they are doctors after a few hours of training. while working in a hospital i have yet to be able to grab the company car or truck and go out for coffee or some shopping. however, i was definitely able to do that as a paramedic and ff. the included before, after and even during a call when another ff would place an order for us if we were called to work on a patient at a restaurant. that way we would also be assured of a free meal since the manager of the restaurant would never ask us to pay. there are also many threads on fire and ems forums where you might be able to pick up some pointers for "time management" and how to get all those little perks you are either missing out on or just denying.
    Last edit by TraumaSurfer on Oct 20, '10
  7. by   getoverit
    I was hoping you'd have a chance to respond.
    there may be 2500+ paramedics in LA county, but you mentioned the LAFD which does have 242 by their own records. And you were bashing fire departments, not the private ambulance services that admittedly do most of the transports in large urban systems. 2500+ would be inclusive of the 27 agencies you mention (now) but originally you were bashing the fire department for not teaching their medics to perform 12 lead EKG, which you were proven to be incorrect about...not that you seem willing to admit.
    ATLS certification is not only given to doctors, PAs and NPs are also eligible for the cert as well. And yes, I've audited the course several times and was required to complete all the same requirements as the students actually taking the course. There are many scopes of practice and you link us to several of them, proving a point that I had already agreed with you about. I'm sure you're correct about more RNs than paramedics inserting chest tubes in any given state.
    I'm not sure many people would agree with you that I have a "thug mentality". You chose to interpret my statement about "showing you through the door" as violence. I'm not sure why, maybe a little bit of co-guilt on your part, who knows/who cares...but I was referring to escorting you outside and making sure you understood not to come back. Obviously no one is going to assault someone at the fire department, and if they did, under most circumstances they would be fired and charges pressed (as it should be).
    Yes, I've heard people say terrible things about houses burning or cars wrecking (although I've NEVER heard someone say anything about kids drowning until I read your post!) I don't agree with that and, believe it or not, 99% of the time I call my brothers out on it when they say something like that. It's unprofessional and more importantly mean-spirited. There's no place in public service for an attitude like that. But you are right, that is heard far too often. I can assure you that in my department, if someone said that the chief would reprimand them...once. Again, and they'd be looking for a new job.
    I don't believe the FD is perfect. But you also see police doing the exact same things you mention about FFs, you conveniently neglect to include them in your rants. There are nurses I work with who will run to the grocery store on a break, I've done it too. No apologies and I don't see what the big deal is. It really seems like you have a bad taste in your mouth against the FD for whatever reasons and it shows in your vitriol against us. We have open houses, community days...call them what you like. It is based on family-based fire/life safety. Sure we cook out hamburgers and hot dogs for the people who show up, this is America right? or does that somehow anger you as well. But we don't show off our TVs and grills any more than I show off our new chairs, computers, monitoring equipment, etc in my ICU. If you believe that FD open houses are to flaunt what little tax money we get in revenue then you have seriously missed the boat. We have fund raisers every year to help subsidize our department. There is also 100% transparency in the accounting department, anyone can easily see where all the money is allocated...down to the penny. That sense of integrity is one of the many things I take pride in as a FF/paramedic.
    Why would you think I wouldn't know what the IAFF is? Of course I do. That question of yours made no sense to me and I wondered what your purpose for asking me that would be. I believe it both helps and hurts the service, just like any union. that's the duality of unions, but overall they are good because the line workers would get crushed by management if there weren't any regulations stipulating what can and cannot be done. That's part of the duality of capitalism, but we'll save that for a future debate.
    and lastly, no, I wasn't trying to start a problem with my final comment. If you perceive it that way I seriously question your reading comprehension. It was a hypothetical comment where I was attempting to create a situation where you may be able to relate to an example, obviously it was lost on you...but that's not my fault. If I was trying to stir something up, I wouldn't have included the phrase "something ridiculous like that I would imagine that you and many other nurses would rightfully take offense to that" because as an RN/REMT-P I obviously don't agree with that statement. Ease up a little, you don't have to pick on other kids in the sandbox.
  8. by   getoverit
    Also, in answer to your question. Yes I own my home and pay property taxes. I am involved in my community, although I'm sure most of us could do more.
    and I will give credit where it's due: you are absolutely correct in your statement about fire departments struggling and relying on EMS. I know plenty of paramedics who act like doctors, but I wouldn't consider 2 years of school equal to a few hours, as you assert. That being said, there are nurses I work with who are "often wrong but never in doubt", argue with physicians and their fellow nurses as well. We can spot them a mile away, as I'm sure you can too.
    You and I have a lot in common despite our differences of opinion. and lastly, you would lose your bet about me typing my response in a comfy chair at the fire station. I'm sitting in a less-than-comfortable chair in my ICU across from my patient where I've spent 12 straight hours each night this week. I love both of my jobs for different reasons.
    Last edit by getoverit on Oct 20, '10
  9. by   TraumaSurfer
    Quote from getoverit
    I was hoping you'd have a chance to respond.
    there may be 2500+ paramedics in LA county, but you mentioned the LAFD which does have 242 by their own records. And you were bashing fire departments, not the private ambulance services that admittedly do most of the transports in large urban systems. 2500+ would be inclusive of the 27 agencies you mention (now) but originally you were bashing the fire department for not teaching their medics to perform 12 lead EKG, which you were proven to be incorrect about...not that you seem willing to admit.
    How to perform a 12-lead EKG consists of the skill of applying the electrodes and turning on the machine. That memo you posted was in 2005 and it stated nothing about interpretation. You can now refer to Dr. Rokos' statement.

    Quote from getoverit
    ATLS certification is not only given to doctors, PAs and NPs are also eligible for the cert as well. And yes, I've audited the course several times and was required to complete all the same requirements as the students actually taking the course.
    I'll give you that one. 2 years ago when I audited the course NPs and PAs still were not rec'g a certificate.

    Quote from getoverit
    I'm not sure many people would agree with you that I have a "thug mentality". You chose to interpret my statement about "showing you through the door" as violence. I'm not sure why, maybe a little bit of co-guilt on your part, who knows/who cares...but I was referring to escorting you outside and making sure you understood not to come back. Obviously no one is going to assault someone at the fire department, and if they did, under most circumstances they would be fired and charges pressed (as it should be).
    Oh please! Look at the headlines on the fire boards' news feeds. It is a rare occassion that a FF gets fired. That is the biggest flaw of the union which strives to protect all the screwups. Your comments "showing you through the door" definitely are similar to many statements FFs have made even to their medical directors and the public when they didn't get what they wanted. The FFs are afraid to make these statements in public which come across as to where extra LEOs have to be present for some town meetings.

    Quote from getoverit
    Yes, I've heard people say terrible things about houses burning or cars wrecking (although I've NEVER heard someone say anything about kids drowning until I read your post!) I don't agree with that and, believe it or not, 99% of the time I call my brothers out on it when they say something like that. It's unprofessional and more importantly mean-spirited. There's no place in public service for an attitude like that. But you are right, that is heard far too often. I can assure you that in my department, if someone said that the chief would reprimand them...once. Again, and they'd be looking for a new job.
    Look what popped up in the headlines this week. The Fire Chief supported the FFs. All over a $75 fee.
    Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground
    http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/tn-st...104052668.html

    http://www.ems1.com/columnists/david...t-a-home-burn/

    As far as comments about drowning, you would have to live in a state with lots of water and swimming pools to understand that one.

    There are nurses I work with who will run to the grocery store on a break, I've done it too.
    Do the nurses take the hospital van or car...how about an engine or ladder that averages 2 miles per gallon to go across town 2 - 3x/day? And, when you are on break at a hospital, you are not being paid.

    There is also 100% transparency in the accounting department, anyone can easily see where all the money is allocated...down to the penny. That sense of integrity is one of the many things I take pride in as a FF/paramedic.
    Thank goodness for this as now people are being more informed about where their tax dollars are going. Thus, propositions have been defeated as have other amendments in state legislator to prevent the waste many FDs create.

    many other nurses would rightfully take offense to that" because as an RN/REMT-P
    I guess you didn't read any of this thread or even the title. It is RN to Paramedic Bridge. You are only the first or only one to have both the RN and EMT-P. If you are having problems with nurses where you work it is probably because of the same attitude you have come across with here.

    As far as all the other blab blab stuff you posted accusing me and probably that includes other of bashing the FD, it is obvious that you didn't read the prior posts to see that we actually said the FD was a good choice for employment because of the benefits, hours and decent working conditions where you don't have to be at a patient's bedside all the time. You just went off on a "poor picked on rant" instilled in you from the FD. This was not a FD vs Private thread which you seem to have decided to make it. Many RNs already work for private ambulances on CCTs.

    but I wouldn't consider 2 years of school equal to a few hours, as you assert.
    Oregon is the only state that requires a 2 year degree and I doubt if it has to be anything related to medicine. That may have changed by now since they've had this requirement for a few years.

    TX requires 624 hours.
    http://www.teex.org/teex.cfm?pageid=...&Course=EMS135

    And other states require between 600 - 1400 hours for a Paramedic cert.
    Here's a listing of all the states.

    http://www.emsworld.com/survey/

    There are 2 year degrees available but most will not get them. There is no need since they will still be held to the standards for the least educated and trained.
    Yes FDs have continued to promote the quickest and easiest way to get a Paramedic cert. If you are proud of the fact that after 45 years the Paramedic still has the same training requirements, then there is no point arguing with you. The Paramedic cert is and will continue to be an add on for the FF and will never be a profession by itself. You already got defensive and brought up private ambulances. I suppose you believe a Paramedic who is not a FF is less of a professional just like the point you now seem to be making about RNs.

    However, I think your posts give an RN who wants to make a career change as a Paramedic in the FD an idea what they might be up against including some of those "showing you through the door" actions.
    Last edit by TraumaSurfer on Oct 21, '10
  10. by   getoverit
    You seem to have a serious problem with reading comprehension.
    Among the things you misquote/misunderstand (and I definitely don't have the time to address all of them....I doubt anyone does, but surely that's something you must encounter on a regular basis):
    1. I am proud of being a paramedic as I am also proud of being an RN. I completed the training, but the number of training hours or how they have or haven't changed over the years is not something that influences my sense of self-worth. Maybe you can understand that, or maybe not....not my problem.
    2. I never said I have any problems with any of the nurses I work with. I don't now, and I don't believe anyone would disagree. I don't know where you got that idea from, it certainly wasn't from anything I posted. Although you have demonstrated a penchant for making things into whatever suits you best, so I guess this is just another example.
    3. I gave you credit and admitted some things you were correct about it (in retrospect it now seems like a mistake). You haven't shown the same respect back to me...so consider mine towards you gone.
    4. I don't have any idea what you're talking about paramedics who aren't FFs being less of a professional and equating that with something I said about RNs. there's nothing I said that remotely insinuated anything like that, I don't want to hear why you took it that way. It's either ignorance or malice (or I suspect a combination of both).
    We are not going to agree on much. I feel sorry for your co-workers (both former and present) and especially your patients. I hope that you were just looking for a beef with someone, that was obvious by your inflammatory remarks and your dedicated unwillingness to understand a differing perspective. good luck in your life. You have engaged me in the most pointless discussion and I'm no longer interested in reading your point of view.
    Last edit by getoverit on Oct 26, '10
  11. by   TraumaSurfer
    Quote from getoverit
    You seem to have a serious problem with reading comprehension.
    3. I gave you credit and admitted some things you were correct about it (in retrospect it now seems like a mistake). You haven't shown the same respect back to me...so consider mine towards you gone.
    You did not read my posts and failed to see where I gave you credit or admitted my facts were off on a couple of things like the recent changes with ATLS certs for PAs and NPs.

    You continue with accusations and personal attacks. You ignor what the thread is about or the other questions it was discussing like what an RN could do with a Paramedic cert once it was obtained. You went into some rant about people bashing the FDs because of this when all some were doing were giving pros and cons of different work opportunities.

    "Get over yourself". Nobody bashed FDs or Paramedics. The inadequacies of the Paramedic training were pointed out and as long as people continue to ignor those, the Paramedic will continue to be an easy cert for many different health care providers, FFs and those wanting to be FFs to obtain.
  12. by   getoverit
    "get over it" is an aviation reference...not anything insulting towards anybody. If you don't understand that, it's not my problem.

    I beg to differ about the personal attacks and you have absolutely no room to talk. You have unfairly cast me as a "thug", accused me of promoting violence towards others, insinuated that I don't get along with my co-workers and have a hard time "adjusting" as a nurse and also that I am a poor example for anyone who expresses a desire to work both as a nurse and paramedic. You are mistaken about all those things and I don't need to try to persuade someone who doesn't know me. Your initial response to me said something to the effect of "no name-calling" and I foolishly thought you meant it, I now know differently. If I had communicated with someone the way you have with me, I would feel I owed that person an apology...but that's just me.

    I have given you credit where it was due and admitted things you were correct about, even in the face of your disparaging comments about me. and thank you for giving me credit with the ATLS thing, I've audited it several times and I can remember NPs and PAs in there upwards of 5-6 years ago, but that's not really important. I'm not going to list all your quotes that have bad-mouthed FDs, but yes sir, you have bashed FDs in your posts and I was merely pointing out errors as well as trying to engage in a debate.

    Some of the things you have said were right, others weren't. I have had the privilege of working with FFs and medics for a long time, I know hundreds if not thousands and I can tell you for a fact that I don't know anyone of them who would stand up with you and agree with your appraisal of the fire service. You have linked me to many websites, one thing you haven't mentioned is any of the truly heroic, above-and-beyond things that occur everyday. It's almost as if you don't believe it's worthwhile, and if you don't that's fine...it's your prerogative. Everything I have posted I would feel comfortable standing up and saying in person in front of anyone. You have denigrated FDs in general and I wonder how you would feel standing up in a crowded firehouse and expressing your opinions instead of anonymously on this forum? (<---not a violent statement so don't even try to twist that one around!)

    You present your argument in a very insulting way and it's difficult to believe that you have a hard time understanding why it's not received very well. You also have demonstrated a disregard for my personal explanations about things that I've written when you misunderstood what I meant. Misunderstanding is fine, happens all the time, no big deal....but you have latched onto things that I've said, twisted them around and refused to acknowledge my intent when they were explained to you. This leads me to believe that you were looking for a fight in the first place, I'm sorry if I've given you what you wanted.

    I am eager to hear a differing opinion from my own without trying to change the other person's mind. I genuinely want to understand where other people are coming from. If you are that way too, it hasn't been evident in your replies.

    And for the comment about the original topic of the thread, if you will read all the replies you will see that I had posted on this a long time ago(on topic, I might add). I replied to your statements about the fire service, which was also has nothing to do with RN to medic bridge courses.
    Last edit by getoverit on Oct 27, '10
  13. by   TraumaSurfer
    You are really too overly sensitive and must feel you should defend the FD for every comment made. "Get over yourself".

    FDs have good benefits. Why must you want to argue about that when it was stated as a perk?

    FDs do have a lot of down time in many places. Why must you want to argue about that when it was stated as a perk?

    FDs do pay better than private companies even if it is by hours worked. Why must you want to argue about that when it was stated as a perk?

    FDs do have bar-b-ques. Why must you want to argue about that when it was stated as a perk?

    FDs do have freedom to take their trucks shopping. Why must you want to argue about that when it was stated as a perk?

    Why do you think any of those statements are "bashing"?

    If seems you are just wanting people to fall all over you with compliments for the hero stuff. Sometimes you must take the good with the bad. It is not all about the hero worship. Nurses can be heros also in their own profession. They shouldn't have to be a FF. But, for those that do, the perks of the job were pointed out.

    Any comments that might have seemed "harsh" were directed totally at YOU and not FFs.

    Again "get over yourself". I hope you understand what that means.

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