It's a Myth that it takes thousands of dollars to train a new Grad RN - page 2

Let me begin by giving some background about my situation. I graduated from a nursing school with an ADN in May 2012 from a school in California. Academically I was # 2 in a class of about 60... Read More

  1. Visit  andywolfe profile page
    0
    “4:49 am by kylee_adns
    I think maybe the additional costs can be from the additional certifications and training besides the preceptorship. I am a newer grad (dec 2011) on a similar step-down unit, and our orientation is almost double yours (10-12 weeks). This of course increases the price. Also there is a lot of additional education besides the orientation. I know I have 100s of hours of computer based training and many, many classes. These include Care of cardiovascular surgery patient, care of thoracotomy patient, ICDs, Pacemakers, ACLS, cardiac drips, etc. I cannot even remember all the classes I have done, and I have 4 in the next month. This is a big investment by the hospital, especially if the nurses do not end up sticking around.”

    I don’t think the additional courses that you have taken or will take end up costing hospital 10K. Just google for critical care courses in Southern California and you will come up with companies teaching that course for less than $1,000.00. I already had paid out of my own pocket for ACLS ($240.00) and PALS ($240.00) and arrhythmia certificate course($120.00) before I was hired to the unit. Furthermore, the hospital is not paying the full advertised price for those courses that I had paid. Finally, shockingly the two code blues that did happen during my orientation that I was involved with first hand, the docs failed to follow the ACLS guidelines precisely.
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  3. Visit  Multicollinearity profile page
    6
    You are way off base regarding COBRA. The COBRA payment amount is the amount the employer is paying for your health insurance to the insurance company plus a 2% administrative fee to cover the cost of administering the plan.
  4. Visit  kcmylorn profile page
    0
    $60,000 to train a new grad is what managment told me in our preceptor class back in 2007
  5. Visit  andywolfe profile page
    1
    I can pull out a number from anywhere myself and tell you that it cost this or that amount to train a new grad RN. My original post has specific numbers for my case and if someone else has other numbers than please share. It would be kind of pointless for me to believe that it cost $60,000.00 without any specific costs or breakdown of where this number is being generated from

    “4:33 am by ColleenRN2B
    There are costs associated with running a business, lots of behind the scenes costs that you can't even begin to imagine. Why don't you straight up ask someone in HR about this "myth" and see what they can tell you? Present your figures and see if they agree with you or can pull out the numbers that will add up to what you've heard it costs to train a new hire.”

    I did exactly that about a week ago and the HR lady didn’t have an answer for me. She was surprised that someone would even ask this type of question. I didn’t press the issue further, since I didn’t want to rock the boat and get on a bad side of anyone in the organization.

    There are certainly cost associated with running a business. I have ran and sold 2 small business myself. I have also worked for Blue****insurance company and I can and do imagine these costs.
    anotherone likes this.
  6. Visit  kcmylorn profile page
    11
    I don't know where managment got their figures from. I'm just swallowing the managment Kool-aid like a good little nurse
    Orange Tree, JulieL, ohioSICUrn, and 8 others like this.
  7. Visit  andywolfe profile page
    7
    I on the other hand like to question everything and don't like to believe anything on it's face value. I use my own critical thinking skills that was ingrained in the nursing school; however, I have found that the more critical thinking I use, the more trouble I get into
    JulieL, VanLpn, netglow, and 4 others like this.
  8. Visit  andywolfe profile page
    0
    “5:26 am by Multicollinearity
    You are way off base regarding COBRA. The COBRA payment amount is the amount the employer is paying for your health insurance to the insurance company plus a 2% administrative fee to cover the cost of administering the plan.”

    You may want to call a local insurance rep that deals with multiple health insurance company and ask for a quote for a 28 y.o male for a similar or same type of insurance. In CA it will run you less than $500.00. You also may want to research about the tax breaks that the corporations receive for providing insurance to you. They inflate this number so that they can get a bigger deduction on their taxes.
  9. Visit  TheCommuter profile page
    15
    Quote from andywolfe
    You may want to call a local insurance rep that deals with multiple health insurance company and ask for a quote for a 28 y.o male for a similar or same type of insurance. In CA it will run you less than $500.00. You also may want to research about the tax breaks that the corporations receive for providing insurance to you. They inflate this number so that they can get a bigger deduction on their taxes.
    The member to whom you're responding (Multicollinearity) is a second-career nurse who worked for many years in the insurance industry prior to entering the nursing field. She dealt with insurance policies on a daily basis, administered them, and knows the nooks and crannies of the business.
  10. Visit  kylee_adns profile page
    1
    Quote from andywolfe
    “5:26 am by Multicollinearity
    You are way off base regarding COBRA. The COBRA payment amount is the amount the employer is paying for your health insurance to the insurance company plus a 2% administrative fee to cover the cost of administering the plan.”

    You may want to call a local insurance rep that deals with multiple health insurance company and ask for a quote for a 28 y.o male for a similar or same type of insurance. In CA it will run you less than $500.00. You also may want to research about the tax breaks that the corporations receive for providing insurance to you. They inflate this number so that they can get a bigger deduction on their taxes.
    I know that I have purchased my own insurance in the past for a similar price as what I pay to my employer now. That insurance in NO way compared to the comprehensiveness of my insurance that i obtain through my employer. I also remember that I had to pay an added premium if I wanted it to cover me if I got pregnant. I had to pay that premium for an entire year before it would cover a pregnancy.
    GrnTea likes this.
  11. Visit  andywolfe profile page
    1
    Quote from TheCommuter
    The member to whom you're responding (Multicollinearity) is a second-career nurse who worked for many years in the insurance industry prior to entering the nursing field. She dealt with insurance policies on a daily basis, administered them, and knows the nooks and crannies of the business.
    Dealing with the insurance companies for the purpose of selling it to consumers doesn’t tell you the true cost of providing the service. There is an inherent bias that comes into play since your income is completely dependent upon selling the insurance. Each person that you sell the insurance to, the Big insurance company will pay you a commission. Since your income is directly coming from the insurance companies itself, you tend not to question the status quo. It’s similar to what happened in the mortgage business and banks. The banks sold shoddy mortgages to consumers. The auditors were sleeping or missing in action so to speak. While the sales people paddle those shoddy mortgages to consumers. Yet, some of these same sales person had 10 or 20 years in banking experience.

    Therefore, I would believe in my own research rather than believing someone else and as I had stated earlier I can get the same or similar type of health insurance for less than $500.00.
    JulieL likes this.
  12. Visit  andywolfe profile page
    0
    Quote from kylee_adns
    I know that I have purchased my own insurance in the past for a similar price as what I pay to my employer now. That insurance in NO way compared to the comprehensiveness of my insurance that i obtain through my employer. I also remember that I had to pay an added premium if I wanted it to cover me if I got pregnant. I had to pay that premium for an entire year before it would cover a pregnancy.
    It may be the state that you are in. The insurance that I am looking at has similar if not the same schedule of benefits as one provided to me by employer and it doesn't cost a $1,000 per month in premium.

    Now let me give you some details about the plan. Out-of Pocket Maximum for individuals for both insurance is $6000.00. PCP deductile is $25 for both insurance. Specialist is $50.00 for both insurance. For the insurance provided by the hospital prescription drugs are $15.00 per prescription for 1st Tier Formulary and $30 for 2nd Tier non-formulary. The self insured prescription drugs are $20.00 per prescription for 1st Tier Formulary and $35 for 2nd Tier non-formulary.
  13. Visit  samadams8 profile page
    4
    I don't buy that orientation is outlandishly expensive necessarily. Compared to many years ago, many things are loaded in systems so that new hires can go through the material via Intranet. This saves the class time and paying wages per hour for sitting in a classroom. Yes, somethings still require a classroom, but a lot of it has been cutdown.

    Insurance benefits are an issue, and it a HUGE part of the hiring freezes and moving from FTE to more PTEs in many hospital over the last several years. Still, if you hire someone, in most cases, you have to provide health benefits packages. This is part of the employee's compensation. But what I've seen places do is constantly rotate people through orientation and eliminate them right at the 3 month mark, when the benefits kick in. Why do that? Well, if you are Magnet and/or looking to become Magnet, you are looking like you care about safe staffing ratios and so forth, but you are making no commitment so to speak. Also, you can still give your preceptors patients while also giving the orientees patients, and after three months, get a new hire and continue with the cycle-supply. I have seen hospitals do this where they staff so many FTEs, PTEs, per diem, some % of travellers, and then they do the ole rotate new-hire RNs through--and it equals about the same time the travellers are contracted. When you have seen the pattern over and over again, it's hard to miss, and you know you aren't making it up.

    There's a lot of stuff that goes on that no one really talks about.


    About the cost of orienting, it may vary; but suffice it to say most places have really peeled those costs back.

    Sadly, nurses are too often treated as disposable units. I mean, as they say, it is what it is. If you work in or with a place that genuinely values you and sees each individual nurse as important to the whole--where you get the love, so to speak, consider yourself REALLY fortunate. I don't think you will see a lot of places trying to at least "appear" that way again until there is a very desperate need for nurses or unless they are trying to receive some kind of PR, advertisement, or recognition. Of course, my loyalty would go to the places that maintained the love in spite of the economy and current dynamics. Finding such places now is like finding a real diamond or bar or platinum on the beach. The one's that are genuine will be functioning this way no matter what, b/c the commitment is truly built into and throughout their values and ethics. It's not just something they say or put on paper. This is determined, more times that not, by the kind of ethos in leadership and administration. If the bigger leadership will not support a CNO in making such a commitment to values and ethics, that CNO will not be at the institution for very long. Well, CNO's get a nice salary, and so too often they go with the admin b/c of the money and title. It's about real integrity though, and integrity can cost you money, power, support in networking, etc. This is why I'm not so quick to judge anyone that has been "let go" or fired. Not fitting into the culture can, often enough, mean you don't play their games--leadership's games are at odds with your integrity--and this kind of thing can be an issue from the lowly staff nurse, all the way to the CNO.


    OP, sorry you had to move; but given the overall state of California, as pretty a state as it is, right now you may be much better off.

    Oh, also, you are right. As a newer nurse, you are cheaper than a veteran nurse--and this is also part of the reason veteran nurses aren't getting jobs if they left the field for a period of time. If they put an "internship" type program in place, they can still save a lot of money. They run it once or twice a year. In the internship, you may not be entitled to various raises, however small. The new grads that aren't getting jobs need to understand that if they aren't getting positions over experienced nurses that cost more, the spaces for FTEs are mega-tightened at the particular institution--b/c they are being told to limit hiring, especially of FTEs.

    And all these companies and hospitals are waiting to see how hard the changes in healthcare coverage are going to hit them. As the economy continues in the current state, businesses will continue to limit hiring and other expenditures. But I fully expect that as more positions open up, a good percentage of them will be filled by new grads, specifically b/c they are cheaper.
    Last edit by samadams8 on Oct 16, '12
    netglow, Esme12, andywolfe, and 1 other like this.
  14. Visit  andywolfe profile page
    0
    Here is a quote from National Bureau of Economic research about the tax breaks that corporations get for providing so called a valuable health insurance benefit.

    "
    ]Currently, employers' spending on health insurance premiums is exempt from taxation for both employers and employees. Premiums paid by employees are exempt as well if the firm has established a Section 125 cafeteria plan; roughly 80 percent of employees with insurance have such a plan. This tax exclusion is extremely costly - it reduces federal and state tax revenues by $260 Billion per year and is the government's third largest expenditure on health care, after Medicare ($400 Billion) and Medicaid ($300 Billion)."

    These are straight up Facts not my opinion.


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