Will you work during a Pandemic? - page 45

admin note: we just added a poll to this thread today, april 25, 2008, please take a second and vote in the poll so we can have a graphical representation of the responses. thanks scenario: ... Read More

  1. by   Laidback Al
    researchers are studying the virus, a form of influenza type a, subtype h1n1, as it spreads in the southern hemisphere, which is entering its annual flu season. chile and argentina have been hit particularly hard; chilean media reported last week that thousands of surgeries were postponed to free beds for swine flu cases. the swine flu is the predominant virus spreading in australia.
    things are now heating up in the southern hemisphere, with an increase in swine flu deaths in argentina and elsewhere in south america. we will be approaching the start of the next flu season in north america in just a few weeks.

    now would be a good time to review and reflect on how you, as a hcw, will approach your job as the pandemic ramps up this fall. there is no right or wrong answer, the answer is different for everyone. plan ahead before you are forced to make a hurried decision. not having a plan is a failure for yourself, your family, and your patients.
  2. by   Girl Scout
    Quote from GooeyRN
    THAT sucks.
    Everyone, please be extra careful now... and send positive, healing thoughts to all your co-workers and patients...
  3. by   indigo girl
    A big part of the equasion for me, is based on my perception of how good a job my hospital is doing to protect staff.

    But, Laidback Al is right. I am rethinking my own plans based on what I am reading. At least I have a plan.

    I feel for those nurses down in Argentina that are in their winter season right now, and dealing with more cases than we are.

    http://allnurses.com/pandemic-flu-fo...ml#post3754311
  4. by   Woodenpug
    Let's see. This thread was about a hypothetical pandemic. One that is impossible in exaggeration of extremes. How having one extreme, such as no ppe's and still having the government require skilled nursing is just one of the ways that the scenario is at best ludicrous.
    Then linking this to a real world pandemic. Stretching that to somehow make the original post plausible. Well O.K. Still, why not discuss a possible worst case scenario? Why is it so important to exaggerate an already serious situation?

    Notice that still fully two-thirds of the people polled, will work during a ludicrously exaggerated worst case pandemic. If you want to link it to the real world pandemic, I think you'll notice that 98% of us are working.

    I really wonder why fear mongering is so important.

    I guess having an opinion of my own and the ability to differentiate between reality and fiction, makes my post off topic?
  5. by   Ayrman
    Quote from Woodenpug
    Let's see. This thread was about a hypothetical pandemic. One that is impossible in exaggeration of extremes. How having one extreme, such as no ppe's and still having the government require skilled nursing is just one of the ways that the scenario is at best ludicrous.
    Ludicrous in what way? You say that it is impossible yet which is historically valid, i.e. we have seen it before.

    Notice that still fully two-thirds of the people polled, will work during a ludicrously exaggerated worst case pandemic. If you want to link it to the real world pandemic, I think you'll notice that 98% of us are working.
    The current pandemic is little akin to the historical pandemic of the late 19-teens, i.e. people are not dieing in droves and the overall acuity of the infection remains low, and whether you'd care to admit it or not the values of today's population in general are a far cry from those of nearly 100 years ago. A significant percentage of those who proudly proclaim themselves self-sacrificing and unafraid to report for work in the face of a deadly pandemic strain may find themselves having to eat their words before all is said and done.

    Ayrman
  6. by   Laidback Al
    Quote from Woodenpug
    Let's see. This thread was about a hypothetical pandemic. One that is impossible in exaggeration of extremes. How having one extreme, such as no ppe's and still having the government require skilled nursing is just one of the ways that the scenario is at best ludicrous.
    Then linking this to a real world pandemic. Stretching that to somehow make the original post plausible. Well O.K. Still, why not discuss a possible worst case scenario? Why is it so important to exaggerate an already serious situation?

    Notice that still fully two-thirds of the people polled, will work during a ludicrously exaggerated worst case pandemic. If you want to link it to the real world pandemic, I think you'll notice that 98% of us are working.

    I really wonder why fear mongering is so important.

    I guess having an opinion of my own and the ability to differentiate between reality and fiction, makes my post off topic?

    When Goju posted this question, it indeed was hypothetical. The pandemic is now here. Predictions vary but a CFR of 2% in the next wave is well within the range of probability, it could happen soon.

    Based on your comments, I assume you will be willing to continue working into the next wave of H1N1. But I don't want to over presume about your choices and actions.

    So tell us, Woodenpug, are you going continue working and treating patients if the CFR climbs to 2% in the next H1N1 wave and you don't have access to PPE? Will you turn down an offer to have an H1N1 vaccination if it is offered to you? Will you stay at your post even though you have a sick family member or a dear friend that desperately needs your help and attention? Since these are hypothetical questions in what you believe is a hypothetical thread, I am sure you will have no trouble responding to them, hypothetically, of course.
  7. by   Woodenpug
    Quote from Laidback Al
    When Goju posted this question, it indeed was hypothetical. The pandemic is now here. Predictions vary but a CFR of 2% in the next wave is well within the range of probability, it could happen soon.

    Based on your comments, I assume you will be willing to continue working into the next wave of H1N1. But I don't want to over presume about your choices and actions.

    So tell us, Woodenpug, are you going continue working and treating patients if the CFR climbs to 2% in the next H1N1 wave and you don't have access to PPE? Will you turn down an offer to have an H1N1 vaccination if it is offered to you? Will you stay at your post even though you have a sick family member or a dear friend that desperately needs your help and attention? Since these are hypothetical questions in what you believe is a hypothetical thread, I am sure you will have no trouble responding to them, hypothetically, of course.
    Yes, and thank you for asking. Let's note the current pandemic is a novel H1N1, not H5N1.
    Since I believe you are not continuing the hijacking of this thread, as initiated by the OP. (I guess hijacking one's own thread is not off topic.) There are some logical contradictions, which should be clarified to create a possible "worst case scenario."
    Now, in what universe do we run out of ppe's and have food shortages, yet still have other supplies such as syringes, IV lines, medications, briefs, linen, etc.?
    If there was a general population quarantine, wouldn't you have an advantage if you were "ordered to work?" That would mean that you are part of the essential people who are allowed to travel.
    If there was a quarantine placed on your household wouldn't you have already been exposed? and why would the government order you to work and a chance to further spread the H5N1? Unless you were wearing your ppe's from one day before the onset of symptoms, every time you came into contact with your household members. (Oh yeah, no ppe's are available.)
    The above is just a starter, I think we could develop a fun and possible "worst case scenario." Oh and by the way in the original scenario, a plausible (for H5N1) CFR of 60% was given. Though the use of ORT and other forbidden counter measures would likely reduce that.
    Why would I want a h1n1 vaccination during an H5N1 pandemic? Interesting thought though, seasonal flu on top of an avian flu pandemic is possible and would make for an interesting addition to the hypothetical.
    Last edit by Woodenpug on Jul 25, '09 : Reason: changed typo would to could
  8. by   Laidback Al
    Quote from Woodenpug
    Yes, and thank you for asking. Let's note the current pandemic is a novel H1N1, not H5N1. . . . Why would I want a h1n1 vaccination during an H5N1 pandemic? Interesting thought though, seasonal flu on top of an avian flu pandemic is possible and would make for an interesting addition to the hypothetical.
    You are right, I can't speak for Goju. I think, based on reading and following his posts since 2005, that he is more interested in the here and now, especially since a pandemic is upon us, rather than a hypothetical future. Whether it is H5N1 or H1N1 is immaterial. The key factors that will affect the worldwide population during a pandemic are the Attack Rate (AR), the Case Fatality Ratio (CFR) and the Reproductive Number (R0).

    For the current H1N1 pandemic, the latest figures form New Zealand suggest a R0 of about 1.96, that is, each H1N1 infected person infects almost 2 other people. This scale of infections can lead to exponential growth in a very short time. Similarly, the CDC has recently suggested that the AR may reach 30% compared to the 6-8% that has been reported so far by public health officials outside of the flu season. That means that as many as 30% of the total population will become infected and possibly ill from H1N1.

    What is not yet clear is the CFR for this pandemic which seems to be less than 1% for this wave. Given these numbers, what might the future hold for us with an H1N1 pandemic? The answer is an awful lot of people getting sick in a very short period of time. How prepared is your hospital or medical facility for this onslaught of patients?

    You can continue to dismiss this thread as relating to a hypothetical H5N1 scenario, but I think most thread readers can recognize the immediacy of the current H1N1 pandemic in the general question "Will you work during a pandemic?"
  9. by   Woodenpug
    "...You can continue to dismiss this thread as relating to a hypothetical H5N1 scenario, but I think most thread readers can recognize the immediacy of the current H1N1 pandemic in the general question “Will you work during a pandemic?”

    That's why 2/3'ds of the respondents choose to work in the ridiculous scenario? Or is it based upon the idea that to date, no one has chosen to stop work due to the current pandemic?
    Last edit by Woodenpug on Jul 27, '09 : Reason: changed singular respondent to plural respondents
  10. by   MAISY, RN-ER
    While many of us will continue to work, H1N1 has for us in the ER been very telling of how people would react in a truly heinous pandemic. It is coming back and truthfully I am not looking forward to the BS media that will accompany it and stir up the population!

    Any pandemic will be dangerous if not from the infectious agent but from the United States frenzied media that drives people to bring their whole families to the ER! They need to get a grip and stay home. People get the flu, only TRULY SICK people should ever be coming to the ER! That's not what happened this spring, and I will assume the worst for the fall.

    If medical personnel can't get it together, God help John Q Public-they are already clueless!

    M
  11. by   RuRnurse?
    If we have a major pandemic, all we as nurses will really be able to do is provide some comfort to the dying. Whether or not one wishes to do this will depend on the individual. No one can judge another for the decision they make in this regard. It's all well and good to say that we MUST, it's our job, but trust me on this, the ones who will be in charge will not have our best interests at heart!
    If things get really bad, the structure for dealing with it will fall apart very quickly. Those with children to care for, or other issues must use their own judgement. As nurses, we did not sign up for martyrdom.
  12. by   Laidback Al
    Quote from MAISY, RN-ER
    . . .
    Any pandemic will be dangerous if not from the infectious agent but from the United States frenzied media that drives people to bring their whole families to the ER! They need to get a grip and stay home. People get the flu, only TRULY SICK people should ever be coming to the ER! That's not what happened this spring, and I will assume the worst for the fall.

    If medical personnel can't get it together, God help John Q Public-they are already clueless!

    M
    See this post for how they are dealing with patients with H1N1 influenza in the United Kingdom.
    http://allnurses.com/pandemic-flu-fo...ml#post3772655
  13. by   RuRnurse?
    "People get the flu, only TRULY SICK people should ever be coming to the ER!"
    This is so true, but of course this won't happen...The media attention will cause people to show up there as soon as they get a sniffle. Once it happens, it will be the "story du jour".
    To be honest, I think the LAST place I'd want to be during a real pandemic is an ER! You'd be better off taking your chances and staying at home. If you are going to die, then at least be where you are comfortable. Why die on a gurney in an overcrowded emergency room listening to all the chaos around you? Hell NO!
    I'll take a couple of Percocet, wash 'em down with a cold beer, and say goodbye with my loved ones around me in my own bed, thank you very much.

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