Nurse: 'I was fired for refusing flu shot' - pg.19 | allnurses

Nurse: 'I was fired for refusing flu shot' - page 19

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  1. Visit  olddragger profile page
    2
    TB test, background check, drug test--what the heck?
    We are speaking about pandemic influenza.
    It seems that only HCW's are targeted for a popular "Lets prevent Influenza" campaign but the real knowledge in how to actually control a droplet spread disease is being ignored?
    I mean if this needs to be done --then doesn't it needs to be done appropriately?
    This must truly be a serious communicative disease that is out of control for all these hospitals to mandate vaccinations? So by doing less than we know than needs to be done, isn't that like malpractice?
    Isn't the first rule of medicine " First do no harm"? So if a situation has developed that is serious enough for federal agencies to mandate vaccinations, shouldn't it be serious enough to fully address droplet prevention for everyone within the hospital--including patients /visitors/vendors etc etc. If we dont--isnt that a violation of that first rule?
    We DONT know that visitors/patients/vendors etc have had the vaccination, we KNOW that those that haven't are a RISK to patients, so by not addressing that in the proper manner ( insuring hand washing, the wearing of masks by visitors, unvaccinated patients, vendors etc) then aren't we knowingly placing patients and others at risk?
    Kooky Korky and morte like this.
  2. Visit  mariebailey profile page
    1
    There are more articles like this, but the reality is that higher flu vaccination rates among HCPs are associated with lower rates of nosocomial influenza. I also want to clarify from someone's prior post that this is not a federal mandate; it is per various hospitals' policies. Preventing nosocomial influenz... [Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI
    NRSKarenRN likes this.
  3. Visit  olddragger profile page
    1
    Not a federal mandate? But isnt it tied to reimbursement? Doesnt that make it a mandate of sorts? I can almost guarantee that if it is tied to reimbursement percentages then a hospital administration will mandate it. For example, look at the motivations surrounding the no smoking policy's and EHR implementations.

    Ok if evidence shows that there is less nosocomial infections as the percentages of hcws with vaccinations increase--where is it?
    The study you posted stated :
    "HCW vaccination rates increased from 4% in 1987-1988 to 67% in 1999-2000 (P < .0001). Proportions of nosocomially acquired influenza cases among employees or patients both declined significantly (P < .0001). Logistic regression analysis revealed a significant inverse association between HCW compliance with vaccination and the rate of nosocomial influenza among patients (P < .001)".

    Is that not comparing oranges to apples? Comparing years 1987-88 to years 1999-2000 is perhaps not the best comparison?
    The year now is 2012--12 years later. A lot of things change in 12 years including the median ages of patients which indirectly influences the percentages of influenza cases.

    Latest weekly CDC viral report seems to indicate that this years vaccination may be a good match? I realize it does remain to be seen.
    " CDC has antigenically characterized 249 influenza viruses [Ten 2009 H1N1 viruses, 155 influenza A (H3N2) viruses, and 84 influenza B viruses] collected by U.S. laboratories since October 1, 2012".

    As I understand it, if a person gets clinically diagnosed influenza then they can remain a carrier for 7 days POST the febrile stage? Does that mean the HCW ( yes you can get the flu even if you are vaccinated) would be required to remain at home for approx 7+days? Would that not be a requirement? This means it should classify as a workmans compensation type of absence and the HCW's sick time and pay should not be affected?

    This truly has the potential to become a Pandora's box for hospitals. Is the risk versus the benefit clearly understood?
    Last edit by Esme12 on Dec 12, '12 : Reason: Formatting
    morte likes this.
  4. Visit  Ntheboat2 profile page
    0
    Quote from olddragger
    TB test, background check, drug test--what the heck?
    Yes, different jobs have different requirements. The flu shot is a requirement for many nursing jobs...just like the TB test, background checks, drug screens, etc. It's nothing new.
  5. Visit  mariebailey profile page
    0
    [QUOTE=olddragger;7065915]
    Not a federal mandate? But isnt it tied to reimbursement? Doesnt that make it a mandate of sorts? I can almost guarantee that if it is tied to reimbursement percentages then a hospital administration will mandate it. For example, look at the motivations surrounding the no smoking policy's and EHR implementations.

    Ok if evidence shows that there is less nosocomial infections as the percentages of hcws with vaccinations increase--where is it?
    The study you posted stated :
    "HCW vaccination rates increased from 4% in 1987-1988 to 67% in 1999-2000 (P < .0001). Proportions of nosocomially acquired influenza cases among employees or patients both declined significantly (P < .0001). Logistic regression analysis revealed a significant inverse association between HCW compliance with vaccination and the rate of nosocomial influenza among patients (P < .001)".

    Is that not comparing oranges to apples? Comparing years 1987-88 to years 1999-2000 is perhaps not the best comparison?
    The year now is 2012--12 years later. A lot of things change in 12 years including the median ages of patients which indirectly influences the percentages of influenza cases.

    Latest weekly CDC viral report seems to indicate that this years vaccination may be a good match? I realize it does remain to be seen.
    "CDC has antigenically characterized 249 influenza viruses [Ten 2009 H1N1 viruses, 155 influenza A (H3N2) viruses, and 84 influenza B viruses] collected by U.S. laboratories since October 1, 2012".

    As I understand it, if a person gets clinically diagnosed influenza then they can remain a carrier for 7 days POST the febrile stage? Does that mean the HCW ( yes you can get the flu even if you are vaccinated) would be required to remain at home for approx 7+days? Would that not be a requirement? This means it should classify as a workmans compensation type of absence and the HCW's sick time and pay should not be affected?

    This truly has the potential to become a Pandora's box for hospitals. Is the risk versus the benefit clearly understood?
    [QUOTE]

    It is against TOS to have > 1 account. FYI.
    Last edit by Esme12 on Dec 12, '12
  6. Visit  olddragger profile page
    1
    ntheboat2--I think my point was not understood? The flu vaccination falls into an unique category in comparison to the ones you mentioned. I feel that they should not be discussed in the same context. For example, if a hcw has a positive TB test--do they have to wear a mask? Whats happens if the ppd is positive? Background checks and UDS are not even related to the flu vaccination discussion.
    There are many mandatory requirements for employment. These are interesting points however.

    mariebaily--"Its agaisnt TOS to have greater than 1 account" I do not understand? If you mean that I have more than one account on this forum--then I was unaware and will do whatever a moderator requires.

    Everyone, I just what to be clear that I am not anti vaccine. I am, however strongly opposed to knee jerk policies that some hospital administrators place into affect. I feel that this mandatory "take the flu shot or loose your job" is a knee jerk reaction to federal quality requirements tied to full reimbursement that has not been well thought out. It is setting a dangerous precedent and overall I believe ultimately it will hurt credibility.
    .
    morte likes this.
  7. Visit  Kooky Korky profile page
    0
    Quote from Laidback Al
    Everyone is entitled to their own viewpoints and beliefs.

    There is no doubt that there are major social and political issues in the USA and other countries around the world, but resolution of many of these political and social problems will only occur when educated populations have the right to make informed choices in a free and open voting system.

    However, this thread, and others like it in this forum, only deal with efficacy of vaccination and whether or not employers have a right to mandate vaccinations. These threads are not appropriate for religious or political proselytizing.

    For people that have strong feelings about these greater issues, creating polemic posts in vaccinations threads is not the way to try to effect social change. You need to take up the crusade with your family, friends, and other concerned citizens in a larger and more public arena then a discussion forum such as allnurses.
    I'm not sure we can necessarily separate one thing from another so completely. We are full-range people, Al. And this topic, about being forced to have shot into your body something that you do not wish to take and which could be harmful and which might not even afford any benefit to you - well, that type of topic calls out political and religious feelings and beliefs.

    I'm not proselytizing any more than anyone else. I stated my views. You stated yours. We both remain unchanged.

    Peace.
  8. Visit  mariebailey profile page
    0
    Quote from Kringe38
    One can get Guillain Barre after having a bout of the actual flu, also, not just the flu shot. Just thought I'd throw that in.
    a/b 1 in a million people for the flu; similar numbers with other implicated vaccines
  9. Visit  NRSKarenRN profile page
    0
    Medscape Today
    Influenza Resp Viruses. 2011;5(6):382-388.
    Helena C. Maltezou, Athanassios Tsakris

    Vaccination of Health-care Workers Against Influenza

    Our Obligation to Protect Patients

    ...Annual vaccination of HCWs is an important preventive measure for nosocomial influenza and is consistently recommended by public health bodies worldwide. The rational behind this recommendation is to protect vulnerable patients from contracting influenza within a health-care setting....

    Vaccination of HCWs is important not only in order to protect HCWs and their families from occupationally acquired influenza infections but also for the preservation of the essential health-care infrastructure during the winter months..
    ....
    The implementation of vaccination programs for HCWs has been associated with less cases of seasonal influenza, less cumulative days of influenza-like illness and absence from work, and a reduction in the total number of nosocomial influenza cases. On the other hand, outbreaks have occurred in the context of low coverage. Vaccination in long-term care facilities reduces all-cause mortality, influenza-like illness, and hospitalizations among residents...

    There is a need to consistently communicate to HCWs the benefits of influenza vaccination. The message that by taking five minutes to get vaccinated provides HCWs the most convenient and effective measure against nosocomial influenza for the entire influenza season. The only option remaining for those who refuse vaccination should be the consistent use of masks during clinical practice for the duration of the influenza season. Public health bodies, health-care institutions, and HCWs themselves have the moral obligation to ensure a safe environment for both patients and employees. This obligation has been at the core of health-care since antiquity...
  10. Visit  olddragger profile page
    0
    "Sigh"
    Again where is the actual evidence?
  11. Visit  morte profile page
    0
    11:44 am by olddragger "Sigh" Again where is the actual evidence? They can't quote any, because it doesn't exist. The old "fear" factor. YOU wouldn't want to hurt your patients so you have to do this or else. Just decreases their credablity on anything. Apparently they don't read the NYT.
  12. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    1
    A PLoS study has documented that, given enough vaccine injections, everyone will develop an autoimmune disorder. The study was performed on mice developed for their ability to withstand such chronic disease. It found that the immune systems of all these autoimmune disease-resistant mice become deranged by the time they’re given an eighth injection of antigens alone. That is, injection of adjutants was not required to cause autoimmunity. Antigen injection alone was enough to cause autoimmune diseases.
    Autoimmune Disorders Caused by Vaccines: A Smoking Gun - Gaia HealthGaia Health
    morte likes this.
  13. Visit  olddragger profile page
    1
    Wow, a great creditable find. Thank you for sharing that!
    Esme12 likes this.


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