Mandated Flu vaccine?

pockunit, ADN, RN · Oct 14, 2011

You don't think talking odds is pertinent?

CapeCodMermaid, RN · Oct 15, 2011

Most every medication we take involves a risk vs a benefit. The risk of a bad outcome from a flu vac is smaller than the risk of becoming quite ill from the flu.

allnurses Guide · Oct 15, 2011

Current Flu Vaccines are 80% effective for the strain of flu they are designed for, 50% effective for other strains of flu, 30% effective against flu-like illnesses, and vaccines like H1N1 (monovalent) are 90+% effective.

Now as far as cold causing pneumonia, if that were true then there should be a very high rate of pneumonia in surgical patients which there is not. The coldest place in any hospital is the OR( not counting the morgue). It would be much more likely that if a lot of your patients were getting pneumonia you are the vector for pneumonia and the cold is just a coincidence.

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2007 Apr 18;(2):CD001269.

Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults.

Jefferson TO, Rivetti D, Di Pietrantonj C, Rivetti A, Demicheli V.

Update in

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2010;(7):CD001269.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Different types of influenza vaccines are currently produced world-wide. Healthy adults are at present targeted only in North America. Despite the publication of a large number of clinical trials, there is still substantial uncertainty about the clinical effectiveness of influenza vaccines and this has a negative impact on their acceptance and uptake.

OBJECTIVES:

To identify, retrieve and assess all studies evaluating the effects (efficacy, effectiveness and harms) of vaccines against influenza in healthy adults.

SEARCH STRATEGY:

We searched the Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials (CENTRAL) (The Cochrane Library, Issue 4, 2005) which contains the Cochrane Acute Respiratory Infections Group trials register; MEDLINE (January 1966 to January 2006); and EMBASE (1990 to January 2006). We wrote to vaccine manufacturers and first or corresponding authors of studies in the review.

SELECTION CRITERIA:

Any randomised or quasi-randomised studies comparing influenza vaccines in humans with placebo, no intervention. Live, attenuated, or killed vaccines or fractions of them administered by any route, irrespective of antigenic configuration were assessed. Only studies assessing protection from exposure to naturally occurring influenza in healthy individuals aged 16 to 65 years were considered. Comparative non-randomised studies were included if they assessed evidence of the possible association between influenza vaccines and serious harms.

DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS:

Two review authors independently assessed trial quality and extracted data.

MAIN RESULTS:

Forty-eight reports were included: 38 (57 sub-studies) were clinical trials providing data about effectiveness, efficacy and harms of influenza vaccines and involved 66,248 people; 8 were comparative non-randomised studies and tested the association of the vaccines with serious harms; 2 were reports of harms which could not be introduced in the data analysis. Inactivated parenteral vaccines were 30% effective (95% CI 17% to 41%) against influenza-like illness, and 80% (95% CI 56% to 91%) efficacious against influenza when the vaccine matched the circulating strain and circulation was high, but decreased to 50% (95% CI 27% to 65%) when it did not. Excluding the studies of the 1968 to 1969 pandemic, effectiveness was 15% (95% CI 9% to 22%) and efficacy was 73% (95% CI 53% to 84%). Vaccination had a modest effect on time off work, but there was insufficient evidence to draw conclusions on hospital admissions or complication rates. Inactivated vaccines caused local tenderness and soreness and erythema. Spray vaccines had more modest performance. Monovalent whole-virion vaccines matching circulating viruses had high efficacy (VE 93%, 95% CI 69% to 98%) and effectiveness (VE 66%, 95% CI 51% to 77%) against the 1968 to 1969 pandemic.

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:

Influenza vaccines are effective in reducing cases of influenza, especially when the content predicts accurately circulating types and circulation is high. However, they are less effective in reducing cases of influenza-like illness and have a modest impact on working days lost. There is insufficient evidence to assess their impact on complications. Whole-virion monovalent vaccines may perform best in a pandemic.

Update of

Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2004;(3):CD001269.

PMID: 17443504 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

wooh, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2011

Now as far as cold causing pneumonia, if that were true then there should be a very high rate of pneumonia in surgical patients which there is not. The coldest place in any hospital is the OR( not counting the morgue).

Well you've just proved that cold will kill you. Coldest place is the morgue. All the patients in the morgue are dead. Cold kills patients! :lol2:

pockunit, ADN, RN · Oct 15, 2011

QED; you got us.

Bortaz, MSN, RN · Oct 15, 2011

Everyone has their own opinions.

Opinions? It's not an OPINION that cold temps don't cause pneumonia. It's also not an opinion that microorganisms DO.

You've been in nursing over 24 years, and you still believe being cold is what makes people catch Pneumonia and the Flu?

My mind is boggled.

Lucky0220 · Oct 17, 2011

everyone has their own opinions. obviously you disagree. to each his/her own. i know what i see, i know what i read and you are more than welcome to debate your issue with any physician at any time if you feel that they are improperly diagnose patients, which they sometimes do. again, the patients and families complain of being cold and when they complain about the temps and then someone gets sick....there you have it.

i know that you are getting flamed, but honestly where have you read this, as you state above?? pneumo is either caused by a viral or a bacterial organism. this is nursing 101. if these docs are just patronizing these uninformed patients, rather than teaching them, he is doing them a big disservice.

my mom, who was not in the medical field, like another poster mentioned, thought that if i walked around the house barefooted, i'd get sick. she also believed that if i went out with wet hair, the same would happen!!

so once again, i ask, please tell where you read this info, because i find it hard to believe. :confused:

Laidback Al · Oct 17, 2011

I think that Lucky0220 has touched on a point worth commenting on.

It is no secret that I am critical of nursing professionals who have a limited scientific understanding about modern disease theory and vaccination. But I am even more appalled if trained and credentialed doctors are misinforming or misleading their patients about the distinction between viral and bacterial infection or about the general nature and transmission mechanisms of infectious diseases.

wooh, BSN, RN · Oct 17, 2011

My mom, who was not in the medical field, like another poster mentioned, thought that if I walked around the house barefooted, I'd get sick.

Not always wrong there, depends on what you step on!! (And if you're barefoot in the morgue, we've already determined that you're sure to be dead!)

fact geek · Oct 24, 2011

In the US, it's actually 70-90% in working age adults.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectivenessqa.htm

Last month when MunroRN wrote that statement, the link above did indeed lead to a CDC statement that flu vaccine (when well-matched) reduced influenza disease by 70-90% (in healthy adults under 65).

However, CDC updated that link on October 12 2011. If you click on it now (October 24 2011), the same link has been greatly revised. It now states (among many other changes):

recent RCTs [Randomized Clinical Trials] of inactivated influenza vaccine among [healthy] adults under 65 years of age have estimated 50-70% vaccine efficacy during seasons in which the vaccines' influenza A components were well matched to circulating influenza A viruses (Beran et al., 2009, 2006-2007 season; Jackson et al., 2010, 2005-2006 season; Monto et al., 2009, 2007-2008 season).

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Oct 24, 2011

You know, I don't know if I have ever been mandated, The boss tells me she has the vaccine, I go to her office and extend my arm. I HAVE had the feeling that had I not done so I would have been chansed down the hall with a syringe....

Aurora77 · Oct 24, 2011

Mine's mandating the vaccine. I've been getting them for years, so I don't really care. I just wish we could give each other our vax instead of going to the set up times which aren't the most convenient for us night shifters.