Seizures real vs fake
- 0Oct 28, '11 by princess picklesOk so there was a patient/IM that had a seizure (perhaps, unsure) and the staff that went were stating that it was fake because she was alert and oriented. I was wondering, how do you handle the fakers/manipulators/attention seekers? And how do you know the difference? Just curious because I know there are different kinds of seizures. I am new to the jail population of patients and am trying to be safe with the real seizures vs the manipulators.
- 3Oct 28, '11 by Rob72Oh, Lord, sis, you are innocent!
Probably the easiest "tell" for seizure activity, whether absence or GTC, is the pain response. Use a Bic pen (tail or cap), and press it forcefully into the cuticle area of a fingernail. If they withdraw, they're faking. If they are playing GTC (generalized tonic clonic) with flopping, shaking and foaming at the mouth, they may continue with this, but the limb receiving pain will be rigid, attempting to minimize manipulation which would cause more pain.
For an absence seizure (staring spell) you can flick at their eyes, and they won't blink. Again, risky in that they may alledge that you hurt them, they may injure you, using sx activity as an excuse, etc..
I say this with the obvious caveat that you may have someone take a swing at you, and say they were, "out of it". Either get a CO to do it for you, do it only under very controlled circumstances, or just let them flop(probably safest).
For your experience level, and being female, I would probably simply say that if they display a post-ictal state, they had the real thing(confusion, discoordination, lethargy). Anything else is faker-faker.
Edit: Probably waaaaay more than you want to know-
Quick & dirty worksheet:
and the abstract:
http://www.ilae-epilepsy.org/Visitor...t_2010_000.pdfLast edit by Rob72 on Oct 28, '11
- 2Oct 30, '11 by MichaelaM,RNWhen I have an inmate say they had a seizure, it is usually after the fact. I rarely have the CO call and tell me that an inmate is CURRENTLY having a seizure. A quick review of their history (once they are stable) can help. Do they have an ETOH or seizure history??
The safest thing is usually to get them stabilized as you would any seizure (turn them, do a neuro assessment, get them oriented) and then let them spend the night in the infirmary with qh or q 15m observation, depending on their LOC. If they're faking it, then they get 24h in observation, which is basically like isolation, no TV. If they're not faking, then you did the right thing by taking them to the clinic.
Just my opinion.
- 6Oct 30, '11 by MulticollinearityFakers:
Tend to pinch their eyes shut
Lack excessive secretions
Maintain normal or almost normal blood oxygenation
Do not have bite marks on their tongues
Do not have post-ictal confusion
Tend to sometimes "wake up" afterwards like waking up from sleep
Will allow you to drop their hand into their face - they've all seen or heard of that episode of ER
Strong sternal rub can bring them out
Lose bladder/bowel control
High HR & high BP
Low blood oxygenation at times
- 7Oct 30, '11 by txredheadnurseOne of my favored methods for sorting out the real from the fake was an ammonia inhalant. Broken and waved under the nose of someone faking a seizure (usually with their tightly clamped eyes and mouths ensuring all the fumes went right up the nares) it never failed to elicit a marked response from the fakers.
- 1Oct 31, '11 by txredheadnurseIf that is the case then combine wafting the inhalant with a good sternal rub. Or just bypass the inhalant and use the rub. That is a tender area and rotating the knuckles briskly is virtually impossible to ignore if conscious.
For myself I never had a failure with the inhalant because I broke it right under the nose and left it there for several seconds before I moved it. The concentrated fumes are very difficult to ignore with either a flinch, grimace or copious tearing.
- 3Nov 1, '11 by markpdavidIn correctional nursing you rely on more of the objective data than subjective data. To differentiate real from fake always assess efficiently. General apperance, vital signs, incontinence, pupils, foaming, sounds, movement, sensation, orientation, etc. At first it'll be hard but it get's easier to spot the real and fake ones. Never get in the mentality that everyone is faking or don't let custody or even other health care influence your assessment if they say he/she is just faking.
- 5Nov 1, '11 by ImThatGuyI walked back into the jail once to see an inmate that was having a "seizure" after "falling" off his bunk onto the floor. I radioed to the deputy room and had one of the guys come back with his K9. As soon as Stinger entered the pod on lead the "seizing" inmate jumped to his feet and quickly scrambled back to the top bunk. It was a miracle.