Top 10 Reasons Against Unions - page 3

top ten reasons why we don't want a union 10. the union doesn't write my paycheck. 9. unions would rather cause problems than work together. 8. union scale means the best workers are... Read More

  1. Visit  freetopayattention profile page
    0
    What do you mean "the RN/LPN union wines and dines with the managers"? What is your personal view about LPN's and do they even fit into nursing any more, with the move to unionize RN's?
  2. Visit  lindarn profile page
    1
    Quote from wondern
    Then on to Tennessee. Sometimes even if you do perform incredibly well you may come upon a non-nurse bully manager and her bully squad, who has no respect for some RN's , maybe all RN's in general, maybe a little jealous, who really knows, and then targets you for BS reasons. She targets you and when you go above her your told you've gone out of the chain of command and are fired by her and her bully squad after almost 20 years of exemplary service. What about that? I really think a union would've helped me. I'd been glad to pay some dues for protection from the bully squad of unprofessionals. I worked hard for my patients and doctors and fellow nurses whenever I could. I tried to go above and beyond with a smile everyday.
    Did you call an attorney?

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    wondern likes this.
  3. Visit  Chico David RN profile page
    10
    Quote from lindarn
    Did you call an attorney?

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    Contrary to what many people believe, the ability of an employment attorney to help most workers in a non-union environment is pretty slim. It's one of the oddities of employment in America, that an employer can't fire you because of your race, age, gender - maybe a couple of other protected reasons - but they usually can fire you for no reason at all.
    I've also observed that it's amazing what lengths some managers will occasionally go to to target a particular employee they've decided to get rid of.
    If a manager starts checking every single piece of charting you do, starts questioning your patients to see if they have anything to complain about, enlists a couple of her special favorites to follow you around and report back on everything you say, etc, it's amazing what a black picture can be painted of even a very good nurse.
    As a union steward at my hospital, I've gotten involved in a number of really bizarre cases. One nurse had an absolutely stellar record over many years until she came under one particular charge nurse who hated nurses of her ethnicity. This charge nurse started questioning her patients about her, and when she found a patient who shared her prejudice, she's say something like this: "You know, she's a really bad nurse, but people are afraid to say anything against her. It would really help us if you would give us a complaint we could use". She finally managed to generate some complaints she could use to fire the nurse. Fortunately, there were counter witnesses, including witnesses to the charge nurse's prejudice, and the nurse ended up with a nice financial settlement.
    Fortunately, genuinely unfair managers are rare. But when you run up against a really bad one, sometimes the only thing to do is get out. A strong union can be a big help, but even with that a really nefarious manager who's willing to work at it can still get away with bad stuff.
    Last edit by Chico David RN on Dec 20, '10
  4. Visit  lindarn profile page
    7
    Quote from Chico David RN
    Contrary to what many people believe, the ability of an employment attorney to help most workers in a non-union environment is pretty slim. It's one of the oddities of employment in America, that an employer can't fire you because of your race, age, gender - maybe a couple of other protected reasons - but they usually can fire you for no reason at all.
    I've also observed that it's amazing what lengths some managers will occasionally go to to target a particular employee they've decided to get rid of.
    If a manager starts checking every single piece of charting you do, starts questioning your patients to see if they have anything to complain about, enlists a couple of her special favorites to follow you around and report back on everything you say, etc, it's amazing what a black picture can be painted of even a very good nurse.
    As a union steward at my hospital, I've gotten involved in a number of really bizarre cases. One nurse had an absolutely stellar record over many years until she came under one particular charge nurse who hated nurses of her ethnicity. This charge nurse started questioning her patients about her, and when she found a patient who shared her prejudice, she's say something like this: "You know, she's a really bad nurse, but people are afraid to say anything against her. It would really help us if you would give us a complaint we could use". She finally managed to generate some complaints she could use to fire the nurse. Fortunately, there were counter witnesses, including witnesses to the charge nurse's prejudice, and the nurse ended up with a nice financial settlement.
    Fortunately, genuinely unfair managers are rare. But when you run up against a really bad one, sometimes the only thing to do is get out. A strong union can be a big help, but even with that a really nefarious manager whose willing to work at it can still get away with bad stuff.
    The cure for "at will employment", is a union contract. That also goes for the, "right to work (for less), laws.

    JMHO and my NY $0.02.
    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    herring_RN, loriangel14, CCL RN, and 4 others like this.
  5. Visit  wondern profile page
    4
    Excellent and accurate post, Chico.

    A pharmacist friend told me one of the asst. managers tried to get him to complain about me but he told her he didn't play those games. She was withholding my evaluation for week after week trying to drum up complaints about me to add up to a false pattern of rudeness. She won in the end. She even included a traveller in her squad. One person can only tolerate so many BS write ups. When you're conscienscious and honest it hurts even more. I fought her for too long. You wouldn't believe the hell I allowed her and her goon squad to drag me through.

    Oh yes, I called several attorneys only to find there was really no such a case as wrongful termination in a will to work state. That's what the lawyers offices would say. Some larger law offices even stated they worked for the hospital.
    herring_RN, HazelLPN, laborer, and 1 other like this.
  6. Visit  HazelLPN profile page
    8
    I think that many people who are against unions don't really understand why unions were formed and what the term collective barganing means.

    Collective barganing means that the workers have the right to have some say in their wages, benefits and working conditions. Who should decide staffing levels in units..nurses or hospital administrators? Nurses are there for the benefit of the patient, administrators are there for money. They compromise to give balance of good nursing care without breaking the bank. Checks and balances if you will.

    Teachers unions are now under attack in places like Wisconsin and Ohio, and I fear that my home state may be next. We must not forget that teachers unions also represent certified school nurses who advocate for the health of their students. I'm retired now from a long career in critical care nursing (which I loved, but the old gray mare just ain't what she used to be), but remain active as a volunteer substitute assistant school nurse. I now have great respect for the work that school nurses do, respect that I didn't I fully understand when I was still working in critical care. The school nurse works alone. No charge nurse, no resident, no attending. She is often the only heath care professional these students see on a regular basis, especially thoes who are from a culture of poverty. We must support our school nurses and teachers in their rights to collectively bargain to advocate for their students and not trust greedy politicians and businessmen make these decisions for them.
    Last edit by HazelLPN on Feb 22, '11
  7. Visit  dp1200 profile page
    1
    Quote from Bella'sMyBaby
    Where I live, Nurses aren't unionized, so I don't know much about pros/cons. I do know that Teachers are & they seem to have it pretty good......
    Yes, the teachers have it pretty good until they bankrupt their city and state with their lavish and unsustainable salaries and benefits, as we are now seeing across the nation with public employee unions.
    roughmatch likes this.
  8. Visit  d'cm profile page
    10
    i used to be quite ambivalent about unions in healthcare but after 15 years of abuse by hospitals i've changed my mind ( quick aren't i?). when i finally got into a union facility it was sooo nice to know somebody had my back.
    but i think the way nurses unionize could be a lot better. it is very fragmented with different affiliations with established unions from other industries competing within states and even cities. if we had a single nationwide union affiliation we could better control our numbers, training and professional standing. nursing is the single largest profession in the usa but we have no political voice as a profession. the potential to be heard if we all sang together ... the potential.
  9. Visit  lindarn profile page
    7
    Quote from d'cm
    i used to be quite ambivalent about unions in healthcare but after 15 years of abuse by hospitals i've changed my mind ( quick aren't i?). when i finally got into a union facility it was sooo nice to know somebody had my back.
    but i think the way nurses unionize could be a lot better. it is very fragmented with different affiliations with established unions from other industries competing within states and even cities. if we had a single nationwide union affiliation we could better control our numbers, training and professional standing. nursing is the single largest profession in the usa but we have no political voice as a profession. the potential to be heard if we all sang together ... the potential.
    we do have a national union- national nurses united, an offshoot of the california nurses association. they are organizing in very anti union states, and have made great strides. and yes, i have been saying for years, that nurses need to unite at the national level, to be able to sit with the big boys, and talk turkey!

    jmho and my ny $0.02.
    lindarn, rn,bsn, ccrn
    somewhere in the pacnw
  10. Visit  HazelLPN profile page
    3
    Quote from dp1200
    Yes, the teachers have it pretty good until they bankrupt their city and state with their lavish and unsustainable salaries and benefits, as we are now seeing across the nation with public employee unions.
    Lavish?
    Last edit by HazelLPN on Feb 23, '11
  11. Visit  HazelLPN profile page
    14
    Quote from dp1200
    Yes, the teachers have it pretty good until they bankrupt their city and state with their lavish and unsustainable salaries and benefits, as we are now seeing across the nation with public employee unions.
    Teachers and school nurses work HARD, are highly educated (many with MSN and MEd degrees) and do not get lavish salaries. Compare their middle class wages with the bankers and ceos who are responsible for the current economic conditions...they are the ones who get lavish wages. The teachers and school nurses are willing to give up raises, but NOT to give up their power to bargain collectively and take ownership in what they do. Middle class workers don't bankrupt tax payers...blame wallstreet and corporate greed for that one.
  12. Visit  lindarn profile page
    6
    Teachers have the pay, benefits, and workplace control, because they unionized from the get go. They have a unified entry into practice, receive extra pay as they advance their education, unlike nurses.

    Nurses complain, **** and moan, but when it comes to working to making posive changes in the workplace, and the profession, they all bug out. They deny that they were not happy with their workplace, pay, benefits, etc. Trying to get nurses to join together to make change, is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

    The changes have to start in nursing school, where these attitudes start. They have to be reinforced, by the nursing instructors, have to debate the pros and cons, and an honest discussion about how unions have helped the average joe blow, the positive changes they make, the protection they offer for ALL nurses.

    You cannot have a workplace that you can make change in, if you care afraid to speak out for fear for your job. Teachers unionized initially, to ensure that they will always have the academic freedom to teach.

    Why do nurses not have the freedom to advocate for our patients? We are legally and ethically required to report unsafe patient care situations, and staffing. Is it preferable to try to ignore these staffing nightmares situations? And put our licenses in jeapardy?

    Nurses have alot to learn from teachers. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN ,BSN ,CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    No Stars In My Eyes, FerRN, GM2RN, and 3 others like this.
  13. Visit  FlyingScot profile page
    10
    Quote from HazelLPN
    Teachers unions are now under attack in places like Wisconsin and Ohio
    It's not just teachers' unions here in Ohio. It's EVERY public employee. I work in a state institution so this WILL affect nursing. I'd like to know where my "lavish" lifestyle is hiding. I pay into the retirement system just like I paid into social security. I pay healthcare premiums that are just as expensive as when I worked in the private sector. I make a decent salary but I'm no where near getting rich. Our union contracts guarantees safe staffing ratios and safe mandation. We gave up our cost of living raises in our last negotiation. Union workers are being demonized as rich slackers being carried on the backs of taxpayers Last time I checked I AM a taxpayer.

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