Strange question / Vent thread.

CoffeemateCNA · Mar 17, 2011

Why would you need to ask to use it? I would just pull it out and use it if it was what I needed. You really should brush up on your math skills, though. You will have an extraordinarily difficult time in the real world if you have to whip out your calculator every time you need to take someone's pulse or figure out intake and output.

Qbert · Mar 17, 2011

Don't most vital machines calculate heart rate?

I guess if you are having trouble doing pulse for 15 sec and multiplying x4, try for 30 seconds and multiply by 2?

I use my phone calculator for any misc calculations I might need to do for school.

yousoldtheworld · Mar 17, 2011

Most O2 meters do calculate heart rate, as do electronic blood pressure cuffs and the like...but the OP does have to learn to do it manually for the sake of class and the state test, and some facilities don't USE vitals machines and all are taken manually. Also, if a machine is giving an unusual reading, you will have to take it manually to double check it before action is taken.

But I don't see why you couldn't use your calculator in class, if you really need it?

Ev1987 · Mar 17, 2011

It looks unprofessional to whip out a calculator in front of a patient to get basic math results. When it comes to the shadowing experience, take it with a grain of salt... but don't forget your morals. Wear gloves whenever you come into contact with a patient. If washing down the shower chair with soap and water makes you feel good, then scrub it down before and after use. I could be wrong, but I assume a patient's hands were restrained because he or she was a bit combative or uncompliant. That happens. This is the real world vs. the textbook experience in the cna field. If you do not want to toss linen on the floor and re-use it, then that is your choice. Take from this experience as much as you can, so that in the end, you'll become a decent nurse aide. That is, if you decide this career path is rght for you.

JDZ344 · Mar 17, 2011

Do your pulse etc for 30 seconds if it's easier. It's more accurate that way anyway.

As for the rest; you offer the care you would like for your own family. That CNA sounds like a royal b****. And don't worry about speed, that comes with time and practice. It;s more important to do things right than fast.

Starletta, CNA · Mar 17, 2011

It looks unprofessional to whip out a calculator in front of a patient to get basic math results. When it comes to the shadowing experience, take it with a grain of salt... but don't forget your morals. Wear gloves whenever you come into contact with a patient. If washing down the shower chair with soap and water makes you feel good, then scrub it down before and after use. I could be wrong, but I assume a patient's hands were restrained because he or she was a bit combative or uncompliant. That happens. This is the real world vs. the textbook experience in the cna field. If you do not want to toss linen on the floor and re-use it, then that is your choice. Take from this experience as much as you can, so that in the end, you'll become a decent nurse aide. That is, if you decide this career path is rght for you.

Thank you everyone... Ev1987, I totally understand what you're saying. But the students were writing down the vitals on paper anyway, and I assume that is how it is done by the CNA's, I don't see the harm in having a 2 x 4 calculator right next to the paper and doing a quick calculation without picking up the calculator for patients to see. I meant just having the paper and calculator side by side. Most are in-cognitive anyway. This is a LTC facility.

I'd rather be accurate than try to guess it in my head, which is stressful enough with our Instructor waiting for our "vital" answers. Don't get me wrong.. I don't mean 20 plus 20 = 40 kind of math. :)

She won't let us count for 30 seconds, which according to our Classroom instructor is more accurate than 15 seconds.

No Digital equipment either, except temperature.

Maybe all State Laws our different. But our books state, NO restraining whatsoever without a Doctor's order. And if the State were ever to come in for inspection and saw that, we would lose our License.

Our class assembled afterward with our Clinical Instructor and she too was shocked at what she saw, as I described above. Restraining patients, dropping linen on the ground and reusing, etc. The particular patient was not combative at all. She was just reaching down when the CNA was changing her briefs.

CoffeemateCNA · Mar 17, 2011

I think you're making things way too complicated.

There aren't too many multiplication tables to learn. 99% of the time, pulse rates are between ~60 - ~100. If you're counting for 15 seconds and then multiplying by 4, that's just a few to memorize:

15 x 4 = 60

16 x 4 = 64

17 x 4 = 68

... ... ...

23 x 4 = 92

24 x 4 = 96

25 x 4 = 100

That's a total of 11 to learn. And if it would help you, write them on a sheet of paper and keep it in your pocket. NOBODY has to know except for you. You can simply refer to them when you are finished counting your 15 seconds.

And if you're wanting to count 30 seconds, but the CNA you're with won't let you, "so what?" If you want to count to 30, and 30 works for you, then count to 30. What's she going to do to you? She's not going to beat you with a baseball bat or punch you or anything. You're just counting for a few extra seconds. No biggie.

As for the "restraints," it's all in how you act and how you do it. If you have both of your hands on a residents arms and are pinning them down to the bed using your full body weight, then heck yes, that's abuse and improper restraining. But what do you expect CNAs to do for combative dementia residents? We can't just leave them in a wet brief for 3 weeks and say, "Well, she refused" when the family shows up and has a cow because their mom has stage 4 pressure ulcers all over herself. Demented residents are not going to simply stop being difficult and start complying just because you tell them "I'm just changing your brief" 456982736 times. There IS a compassionate way to work with these types of people -- get another staff member to help, and have them take the resident's hands in their own and rub them like they would if they were comforting a close friend while you change the brief and do peri care. Talk to them - about anything - while you do it. Personal cares HAVE to be done. There's no way around it. I know you said that the resident at your clinical site wasn't combative, and there really is no excuse for the CNA doing that to him or her; this is just an FYI for your future clinicals and jobs.

Starletta, CNA · Mar 17, 2011

Thank you for the chart Coffeemate- I'll print it up..

Being an older student (A young 50 lol) and sort of a perfectionist, I do tend to worry. :uhoh21:

It is our Clinical Instructor who is insisting that we count for 15 seconds and believe me, she stands over us.. :eek:

Class room Instructor said to count for 30 for a more accurate result.

I did buy a BP cuff with Stethoscope from www.allheart.com and have been practicing on DH, which has help a lot. Mom, will be my victim tomorrow..lol

fuzzywuzzy, CNA · Mar 17, 2011

The CNA at your clinical sounds like a real piece of work, HOWEVER, many CNA students go into their clinicals all starry-eyed and get offended when their role models aren't perfect. That's not realistic. Even the most well-intentioned CNA cuts corners to get the job done, and it's not her fault. If you're smart and hard-working, you can figure out ways to get your work done without cutting *as many* corners, but there's no way to be perfect. There is a reason the CNA textbooks only teach you how to care for up to a whopping 3 patients at a time- it's because you can't give 100% when that ratio is doubled, tripled, or quadrupled! They can't teach you how to give perfect, by-the-book care for that many people because it can't be done. This particular CNA might be useless in terms of showing you how to pass your test, but she's a good example of how things work after the fact, when you have a job, because you're going to run into a lot of people like that. It doesn't mean that YOU have to act like that though, right?

I'm not sure about the calculator thing. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to use it- maybe they're not allowed on the state test; if that's the case, then your instructor is right in not letting you use one. I can't imagine not being allowed to do the math on paper though, if you're lousy at doing it in your head. It can be hard to add up I&Os in your head (quick! What's 80 + 360 + 210 + 540?) when there's a bunch of noise and people talking around you, so sometimes I scribble little calculations on the side of the paper OR go to a quieter area for that. No one has ever told me I can't do that.

Dorali, BSN, LPN, RN · Mar 18, 2011

If I remember correctly, in class we were supposed to take the pulse for a full minute and that's how we did at the state exam too.

Clinicals are for learning and practice. If you are only supposed to get 30 seconds worth of vitals, then you NEED to get 30 seconds worth of vitals. How else are you going to get the practice you need? The worst that will happen is the CNA you're following will walk out before you're ready and you have to catch back up with her. What does she care anyway? It's only for a few days, then you can walk out of there knowing what NOT to do.

Remember this experience when you are training someone yourself.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Mar 18, 2011

It is basic math, and I would think that knowing basic math should be a requirement for getting a license in a health career. It really should not be too much to ask.

Virtually all nursing courses require perfect/ near perfect scores on pharmacy classes. Yes, we frequently will use calculators later, but when you are in class it is time to prove that you can do it on your own.