2 year college

guru · Oct 4, 2003

I compared credit hours. The associate nursing program require total of 70 credit hours to get ASN. 34 credit hours for prerequisite and 36 credit hours of nursing classes. bsn requires total of 120 60 hours prerequsite and then 60 hours of nursing classes. It seem like associate would be easiler. and have more time to study.

guru · Oct 4, 2003

I proabably will go ASN to BSN because it is more affordable. I may try ASN, BS-biology then BSN. Biology is very interesting. I am excited about school.

ainz · Oct 4, 2003

Yeah, good luck.

wonderbee, BSN, RN · Oct 4, 2003

Originally posted by ainz
Nursing is not about the quickest or cheapest way to become a nurse, it is about gettng the best preparation you can find to become a true professional nurse. If you can't afford the BSN right now then work to put things in order in your personal life so that you can.

So what is a true professional nurse? The answers to that can be as varied as the many occupations open to nurses. I've no doubt that more BSN nurses in a facility make that facility more viable. Certainly midwives, practitioners, managers have to be credentialed beyond what is necessary for a floor nurse, for example. But to say that there's only one path to that BSN is a bit over the top. Many qualified BSN's who took the ADN route (maybe because they weren't born with a silver spoon or realized later in life their calling) currently in the field would have a field day with that one.

Am I offended? No. This is the place for opinions. But I only hope that when I get in the field, I don't have to put up with that kind of attitude from my fellow workers. It sounds counter-productive to delivery of good patient care and not professionally appropriate. Sorry Ainz. Just the way I see it.

ainz · Oct 4, 2003

A bit over the top? Nursing is one of the few, if not only, healthcare profession that has not clearly defined the single path it takes to enter the field and one of the few that has not elevated the educational requirements for entry. How can we expect to be treated as professionals and have our knowledge, opinions, and contribution valued by others if we don't strive for higher standards?

This is an age old debate and that in itself is a strong message. I know that people who are LPN/LVN/, ADN nurses are proud of their accomplishments and provide great patient care. However, in the larger scheme of thngs and considering the issues facing nursing, the education path to enter nursing is something that perpetuates the perception by others that a nurse is a nurse is a nurse and all that is needed is a warm body with a license.

You just do not see the various levels of entry in other healthcare professions. They are all standardized or are moving toward that and the education requirements are increasing in keeping with the expansion of the body of knowledge. Nursing is not doing that and it is hurting our profession. To think otherwise is burying your head in the sand.

wonderbee, BSN, RN · Oct 4, 2003

Your point is well taken. Nursing is still considered sociologically a "pink collar" job rather than the educated profession it really is. I'm just a greenhorn student, really wet behind the ears and have much to learn. Grateful to finally be able to get out there and make a difference, the ADN is my ticket and believe me, I'm working hard for it. The competition in ADN programs is stiff because everyone's jumping on the bandwagon. This is raising the standard of the ADN nurse. With the shortage, I believe I'm filling a need. Nursing's there for me andI'm there for nursing. A mutualistic relationship?

I do understand where you're coming from though. I'm not thinking that far ahead. Maybe, as you say, hindsight...?

ainz · Oct 4, 2003

I understand. I took the ADN route because I was working in a convenience store for minimum age and starving to death. Reality was I could not afford to go for a BSN. To a large degree this is a fault of nursing and nursing education (now I will have the educators stirred up!!). Hospital's don't recognize the difference in ADNs and BSNs, or for that matter additional trainng and certifications in various specialties for the most part, an this sends a clear message that they don't care if you have an ADN or BSN, just get a license and come to work!! Also the educators have not pushed to make the BSN the standard of entry and schools don't seem to be effective in recruiting and helping find ways to have students be able to afford to get the BSN. I make these statements in ignorance of the details of efforts of educators. It is just how it appears to those of us out in practice but I am sure some educators may take the time to enlighten me/us, I hope so :)

So as things continue move along, nursing continues to be stuck and not changing with the times in the name of a shortage, exhaustion, economics, etc., etc., there are many reasons and excuses that nurses use to justify our current sitution regarding education. It is a heated and emotional debate and that is one of the core reasons we can't seem to get past it. What a shame.

iliel · Oct 5, 2003

While I understand what Ainz is saying...I'm curious to know if anyone's done a study, if there is a distinct difference between the two degrees as far as the care given.

Can some one really tell between the two?

I guess you could say the same thing happened with the computer field in the 90's....start ups were trying to find anyone and everyone to fill their positions and get ahead of the game, now that the dot commers are gone, ton's of ppl, with out degrees who were hackers, ppl close to graduating but never went on to due to the money they were making (a friend of mine!), and novices have nothing to show for it. They all made a lot of money in a little time then everything went south and they are out of jobs and can't get hired because they don't have a degree. When this was going on, my step dad was having a hard time finding someone who wanted to pay him what he was really worth due to all these ppl who were cheaper, now, it's the other way around. This is just what I've seen and have heard from ppl in the biz...eng, dot commer start ups, etc...

Sorry to ramble, but it just seems like this could be were nursing could end up.

AmyLiz · Oct 5, 2003

It really depends on the programs, I think. Around here (and yes, I'm relaying the honest truth here), the best programs are ADN and diploma. There is one BSN program in my town & most doctors say that they would rather work with graduates from the ADN program over the BSN program.

(Now, before anyone calls me a bold-face liar or anything...believe me...I realize that this is most likely not the case in the majority of cities around the country. I don't know why it is like that here...it just is.)

For me, it was a matter of getting the best education for my money. I cannot afford to go to a 4-year college again. I've already got a BA degree & therefore cannot get any government financial aid. So I'm limited on that point. But, I think even if I did have the financial ability to go anywhere around here, I'd most likely stick with the program I am in now (or perhaps the diploma program) simply because they are the best programs, with the best passing-rates for the NCLEX.

I do plan on going through a RN-BSN completion program after I graduate (and quite possibly an MSN program after that), so I am looking at furthering my education.

Basically, I think whichever way you get your RN, as long as it is a good program, it really shouldn't matter. (Most folks I know that are in the ADN program, or are waiting to get into the ADN program are planning on getting a BSN afterward too)

Just my humble opinion...your milage may vary.

MtnMan · Oct 10, 2003

There is no such thing as a 2 year program for a working nontraditional student. Also I recommend you research 3 or more schools with ADN programs within driving distance of your home. Not all programs are equal. Take the hardest one(the one with the most math and science). This way if you return for a BS you will have less work to do for that. I will be 3 to 3.5 years to complete the 2 year program that I am in. Don't be shocked when you learn that you need to retake ALG, TRIG, CHEM and maybe BIO.

guru · Oct 10, 2003

Mtn,

If I take algebra in ASN program, I will have to retake it when I go for my BSN? that sucks!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe, I should just go for it, and get my bachelors. Which subject will I have to retake?

MtnMan · Oct 10, 2003

I meant if you have been out of high school for 10 or more years.