I recently took CPR class and got a question wrong concerning a choking child: The question portrayed a child eating, then coughing, then falling down unresponsive. My response... I would do the Heimlich maneuver to dislodge the food item which is likely obstructing the airway.
They say to go ahead and start chest compressions (CPR) with no mention of Heimlich.
Once, in real life, I had something similar happen to an adult. I did the Heimlich first and it saved the patient's life.
Maybe it's just because I love teaching so much, but I really do love different opinions and perspectives. I appreciate your rationals behind your opinion. Thank you!
So you would personally do the Heimlich initially on an unconscious child instead of CPR? And for how long?
I would personally always follow the algorithm and start CPR, so I'm always interested to see what anyone who would do something different says!
Maybe it's just because I love teaching so much, but I really do love different opinions and perspectives. I appreciate your rationals behind your opinion. Thank you!
So you would personally do the Heimlich initially on an unconscious child instead of CPR? And for how long?
I would personally always follow the algorithm and start CPR, so I'm always interested to see what anyone who would do something different says!
FTR, I also enjoy discussing different viewpoints and rationales. That's how we continue to learn and progress in our profession.
I do not like "I'm right and you're wrong because I said so" posts. They have zero value and only serve to shut down discussions which shuts down learning.
Specializes in Adult and Pediatric Vascular Access, Paramedic.
The heimlich maneuver is not used on an unconscious person!
This is because they don't want you making the ASSUMPTION that the child was choking! If they were not choking and you spend 2-3 minutes doing the hemlock, when in fact they are in cardiac arrest from a non-choking event they will be brain dead before you start compressions.
Also someone who is choking will not immediately go unconscious, thus this leads us to believe this child was having some other event. If the child was coughing they did not have a complete airway obstruction, although a partial airway obstruction can turn into a complete obstruction of course. Also when people first go into tacky arrhythmia's the body can make you cough in an attempt to stimulate the vagus nerve.
Even if you believe a child is choking chest compressions are used as a form to dislodge the foreign body, once unconscious, followed by attempts at rescue breaths, to see if you can at least get some air to them, and again just in case they were not actually choking or if you partially dislodged the FB.
Specializes in Adult and Pediatric Vascular Access, Paramedic.
Chest compressions in an unconscious and presumably choking child are performed to both circulate blood and in an attempt to dislodge the FB from the airway!
FTR, I also enjoy discussing different viewpoints and rationales. That's how we continue to learn and progress in our profession.
I do not like "I'm right and you're wrong because I said so" posts. They have zero value and only serve to shut down discussions which shuts down learning.
I agree completely! I personally love hearing different opinions and ideas, and I love it when mine are challenged. I co-teach (because sometimes my classes can be quite large) and it's fascinating to hear how other teachers rationalize things. I've even had students who have challenged my ideas and completely changed my perspective, and it's always really fun.
It can become really boring if you're only confronted with ideas and opinions that are the same as yours. Though I do find it really hard to engage with someone if they appear to have no interest in active discussion. It's so rare that someone is all right or all wrong.
Debate is argumentation, just in a formal setting. This is different from "argumentative" which is an attribute.
Debate (noun): "a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward"
Argumentation (noun): "the act or process of forming reasons and of drawing conclusions and applying them to a case in discussion" Synonyms: debate, discussion
Argumentative (adjective): "given to argument : tending to argue : having or showing a tendency to disagree or argue with other people in an angry way" Synonyms: disputatious, quarrelsome
So, a good debate is proper use of good argumentation. However, it's difficult to do if people participating in the debate are particularly argumentative.
Edit: I genuinely am curious though, so would you do the Heimlich on an unconscious child? How often would you check for a pulse? Maybe you or the other person responded and I just didn't see it?
HermioneG, BSN, RN
1 Article; 168 Posts
Edit: MunoRN
Maybe it's just because I love teaching so much, but I really do love different opinions and perspectives. I appreciate your rationals behind your opinion. Thank you!
So you would personally do the Heimlich initially on an unconscious child instead of CPR? And for how long?
I would personally always follow the algorithm and start CPR, so I'm always interested to see what anyone who would do something different says!