Would you hire a MEPN (master's entry level nurse)?

tridil2000, MSN, RN · Jul 10, 2006

Well I hope someone can help me out with this question and hope it hasn't been asked too many times on this board. I'm new to allnurses.com so forgive me if this has come up before.
I'm thinking of making a career change to nursing from teaching. I already have a master's degree in teaching and don't want to get another bachelor's degree so I was looking into MEPN programming. Here in WA state, the University of Washington offers a MEPN that promises a challenging first year of clincal experience and then another year developing a focus area as a nurse practitioner or other nurse specialist.
Ultimately, I have four questions:
1. As an NP from a MEPN program, will anyone hire me as an RN so I can get experience?
2. Will I be met with negatives attitudes from my peers if I do get a job as an RN from a MEPN program?
3. Would a BSN be better for my career?
4. I have a background as a social worker/teacher so I'm interested in the Psychiatric NP program. Is this area in high demand and possibly lucrative?
I've done quite a bit of interviewing and cannot seem to come to a solid conclusion, this issue has been boggling my mind!
Thanks for any information you can provide!

i hate to say it, but you're going to need at least your rn-bsn to get where you want to go.

you can not just say you have a master's and walk into a law school and expect to be admitted. you should take some undergraduate political science/law classes first. when one applies to grad school, they should have a solid basic education in that special field per se..... like you had with teaching. nursing is the same. there are many basic things you have to learn when you change your major.

likely, you've never had college/bachelor's level chem, physics, a&p, pharmacology, just to name a few. you'd have to knock these off 1 by 1 to get into any graduate nursing program.

otherwise, we would have all done that.... walked into grad school and said, "here's my money. teach me from the basics up and give me another masters!"

elkpark · Jul 10, 2006

i hate to say it, but you're going to need at least your rn-bsn to get where you want to go.
you can not just say you have a master's and walk into a law school and expect to be admitted. you should take some undergraduate political science/law classes first. when one applies to grad school, they should have a solid basic education in that special field per se..... like you had with teaching. nursing is the same.

There may be many of us that have that opinion, but the reality is that there are now many of these "direct entry" graduate nursing programs that accept people with no nursing background whatsoever.

sunnyjohn · Jul 10, 2006

There may be many of us that have that opinion, but the reality is that there are now many of these "direct entry" graduate nursing programs that accept people with no nursing background whatsoever.

Elppark is right . There are many "direct-entry" graduate nursing programs in the US. They will take someone with a college degree and no health care experience and train them "from the basics up and give them another Masters degree"

The programs do have prereq's just like BSN and ADN programs, and you must apply (they are usually VERY competitive) so you don't just walk in. Still it is an option for a person who already has a college dgree. Usually they require A&P (I &II), English, Speech, Micro, Chem, sometimes Organic Chem and Pharmacology along with a Bachelor's degree in any discipline. Some of them are generic MSN programs (offering no APN status) and some offer the chance at an APN field after reciving RN experience. The progams can be anywhere from 2-4 years in length.

The student in these programs starts with the basic RN training for an accelerated year or so. After that is complete they then move on to their APN training while working at the bedside. Some program request the students take a year off to work bedside,w hile others go straight through. Some programs will offer a BSN after the first accelerated year, others do not and the student goes straight on (full or part time ) into the MSN.

Whether or not these students are prepared for APN work, I'll leave that for others to decide.

bruinlaura · Jul 10, 2006

Well I hope someone can help me out with this question and hope it hasn't been asked too many times on this board. I'm new to allnurses.com so forgive me if this has come up before.
I'm thinking of making a career change to nursing from teaching. I already have a master's degree in teaching and don't want to get another bachelor's degree so I was looking into MEPN programming. Here in WA state, the University of Washington offers a MEPN that promises a challenging first year of clincal experience and then another year developing a focus area as a nurse practitioner or other nurse specialist.
Ultimately, I have four questions:
1. As an NP from a MEPN program, will anyone hire me as an RN so I can get experience?
2. Will I be met with negatives attitudes from my peers if I do get a job as an RN from a MEPN program?
3. Would a BSN be better for my career?
4. I have a background as a social worker/teacher so I'm interested in the Psychiatric NP program. Is this area in high demand and possibly lucrative?
I've done quite a bit of interviewing and cannot seem to come to a solid conclusion, this issue has been boggling my mind!
Thanks for any information you can provide!

Let's answer the OPs questions rather than start another direct-entry debate. I'll start. . .

1. I don't see why not. An RN is an RN is an RN. Some places may think you are overqualified (aka they don't want to pay you a differential for the MSN) but you can address their concerns in your cover letter or in the interview.

2. Probably not. Most nurses I have worked with encourage me to get RN experience before practicing as an NP. You will encounter more negative attitudes by practicing as an NP sans RN experience

3. A BSN isn't going to hurt but once you have an MSN it probably won't really matter.

4. As far as I can tell in my limited experience psych NP is a very in demand field. I have no idea what the starting salary is but with increased experience comes increased earning power.

lisal11 · Jul 10, 2006

Thanks for answering my questions. Unfortunately, for the most part, I've encountered two types of attitudes here in WA regarding MEPN programming. Those attitudes are admittantly opposed or polite but suspicious. The polite people usually say that they would hire me an an RN but would need to evaluate the program first to see what kind of experience it offered. The program in my area is at the University of Washington which has a great reputation for nursing but it's very new and I don't think people here have warmed up to it yet. It is a two year program and looks pretty good but the only problem I have with it is that it requires choosing a focus area, like becoming an NP or specialist. With no experience I have no idea what kind of an NP I would want to be.

I think the decision I have come to is just to get a RN from a community college (to keep costs down), get some job experience and then enroll in a RN --> MN/NP program that allows me to bypass the BSN.

Psychaprn · Jul 14, 2006

Thanks for answering my questions. Unfortunately, for the most part, I've encountered two types of attitudes here in WA regarding MEPN programming. Those attitudes are admittantly opposed or polite but suspicious. The polite people usually say that they would hire me an an RN but would need to evaluate the program first to see what kind of experience it offered. The program in my area is at the University of Washington which has a great reputation for nursing but it's very new and I don't think people here have warmed up to it yet. It is a two year program and looks pretty good but the only problem I have with it is that it requires choosing a focus area, like becoming an NP or specialist. With no experience I have no idea what kind of an NP I would want to be.
I think the decision I have come to is just to get a RN from a community college (to keep costs down), get some job experience and then enroll in a RN --> MN/NP program that allows me to bypass the BSN.

You pose some interesting questions but I wonder-Could I go become a teacher with a degree in nursing and very little experience teaching? Would you want me to teach your children without experience? No degree can substititue for specific professional experience in your specialty. You can't go around you have to go through. I do wish you luck but please get some basic clinical experience before tring to be a Psych NP! It will be better for you and your patients.

romie · Jul 14, 2006

If you have already been accepted into UW MEPN program, congratulations! There admission process is very very hard, so you should be proud to be part of their amazing nursing school. If you haven't applied yet, good luck. You will be among some of the best and brightest people.

I have been accepted into the University of Illinois at Chicago master's entry program. I too, already have a masters degree, 8 years of experience in direct care of people with developmental disabilities and 2 years management experience in long term care. The first 15 months of nursing program is super intense- 3 full days of clinicals a week (24 hours per week) and about 20 hours of lecture a week on top of that. After 15 months, I will sit for the NCLEX.

I know that the direct entry debate is old, but will someone please tell me that an employer would rather hire a 22 year old kid with no work experience and an associates degree from the local community college vs. me, someone with a masters degree, over 10 years healthcare experience and training from the best nursing school in IL and top 10 nursing school in the country?

Direct entry programs are not just picking random people off the streets. UIC's program was so hard to get into--over 300 people applied for less than 40 spots. Most of the people accepted are successful in the field they currently work in, have relevant healthcare experience and typically have master's degrees. They know excatly what they want to do in nursing and I am proud to be part of this cohort. Any negative attitudes towards these programs are usually the result of lack of information about these programs and/or jealously of the "those MEPN people haven't paid their dues".

I think a key part of the MEPN experience is working as an RN while you are completing your master's coursework. I fully anticipate to work full time as an RN while finishing my masters degree, so debates over lack of RN work experience will be a moot point.

lalaxton · Jul 14, 2006

I think you have to also consider the geographical area you want to work in. Some markets are saturated with NP's. In those markets an NP with more RN experience has the edge. I do think some people do very well in direct entry MSN programs and some do not. An employer is generally looking for someone who can 'hit the floor' running, so if you don't have extensive experience in any medical type field in a tight market you may have trouble.

I admire anyone who choses to go the direct MSN route, it's certainly challenging, however I do hope that those of you who do realize that NP's jobs can be scarce and it may take awhile to find a job.

llg, PhD, RN · Jul 14, 2006

I think a key part of the MEPN experience is working as an RN while you are completing your master's coursework. I fully anticipate to work full time as an RN while finishing my masters degree, so debates over lack of RN work experience will be a moot point.

I agree completely with this point. If someone wants to be an expert, they must have BOTH "book learning" and "practical experience." As long as someone has both, I don't care which order they get them in.

Now ... in response to romie's statement (question?) about hospitals prefering to hire a young new grad over a more mature 2nd career new grad with a direct entry advanced degree ....

What a lot of nurses have failed to realize is that the cost of hiring and orienting a new grad is over $10,000. For most good hospitals who do a thorough job of orientation and mentoring the new grad, that figure is more like $25,000 and sometimes as high as $50,000 for some specialties. That's not counting the total cost of replacing the person who left, creating the vacancy in the first place (paying a substitute overtime or traveler salaries while waiting for the new hire to be ready to fill the vacancy.)

A lot of hospitals have been "burned" by people who are only looking to get that 1 year of experience before moving on to something else. They are therefore becoming increasingly skeptical about investing in the orientations of new grads who don't seem to be wanting to make a committment to stay beyond the first year or so. When interviewing a person such as yourself for an entry level staff nurse position, the recruiter/manager may be thinking, "This isn't the job this person wants. She's probably just going to take our training and use it to move on to something else. We are just a stepping stone for her that she wants to get out of as soon as she can. Will we get a decent return on our investment?"

Depending on the exact situation, the hospital may view the young new grad as a better investment. That young new grad with an ADN or BSN may stay in that staff nurse role longer -- perhaps making that unit or hospital her long term employer. If she decides to go back to school, she will still probably want to stay at that hospital and work part time. etc.

The applicant who has "looking for a temporary job until I can move on to something better" written all over her looks less attractive as a new hire. Some of the 2nd career direct-entry graduates present themselves that way. It's obvious when you talk with them that they are only applying for the staff nurse position because they have to get that 1 year of experience. Of course, other 2nd career direct-entry graduates do not present themselves that way. It's up to the individual to market themselves to their best advantage -- and understanding the hospital's point of view is part of that process.

llg