Work discrimination (or is it?) due to OPT expiration

summerbummer21 · Jun 21, 2008

Alright. No discrimination there. But it wasn't like I'm serious about filing a lawsuit or a complaint. I just complained about the ATTITUDE. That's all. The fact that I was talked down without having to utter a single word, that was what threw me off. It just did not seem professional.

Guess I'll just wait until I obtain my BSN to be able to work as an RN again. Disappointing, but left with no choice.

Thanks guys.

Promin · Jun 21, 2008

There also have been instances that some applicants (not you) purposely do not say that the EAD was for OPT and let the employer presume that the EAD is a result of a pending I-485 w/c employers know can be renewed annually unlike an EAD from OPT that is only good for 1 year and cannot be renewed. Seen some doing it and a few even posted of doing it this way. Sometimes, it takes time for the Human Resources Dept. to find out but when they do they have grounds to let go of anyone.

Actually, nobody is required to say anything about duration of their EAD unless asked. New nurses require 3-4 month of orientation and nobody will hire them on OPT considering the retrogression.

So when one applies for OPT it's better to request the start date at the last day of the grace period to have one full year of employment authorization after obtaining the license. Again, a person on OPT is not obligated to talk about it unless asked directly.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 21, 2008

"It is illegal to discriminate against someone based on sex, race, color, disability status, or anyone with a future employment expiration date."
Well that's what it says on their application for employment! Also, they have an At-Will employment policy, that employees can quit anytime with or without reason, at least two weeks prior, which I did. Believe me, I read EVERY SINGLE THING they handed out to me because I was SO CAREFUL with this employment given my situation.

And at will also means that they can terminate anyone at anytime, in reverse of what you did. You are also a foreign student on a student visa and working only for experience under the student visa, not as a regular employee if you look at it that way.

You also were not giving them two weeks notice of not being able to work, or did you? And that alone makes any facility want to terminate someone, not just this one.

And you need to be aware that you will need them for references and without the two weeks notice, they do not need to give it to you.

You also went into there to work knowing full in advance that you were only going to have a few short weeks left on your OPT. Did you actually inform them before you were hired of this?

suzanne4, RN · Jun 21, 2008

Summerbummer21 I understand that if frustrating, but why did you apply for this job if you had just one month of OPT left? How come that you wasted most of your OPT? Now, let me suggest something, talk to your International student advisor about CPT (curriculum practical training). This is how it works. Your school probably has clinical sites for their students. According to the law http://www.ice.gov/sevis/regs/8cfr214_2f.htm
So basically the nursing department has to make up an assignment for you that requires you to work at the hospital as a nurse. You must get a credit for this assignment. This is one of the way for you to work legally as a student. You should not exceed one year of full-time CPT as you will become ineligible for OPT after completion of the course.

But they have actually had the OPT for a full year and not just a month so there is no way that they are going to be able to work again right away. They are going to need to go thru the same process that they did when they went for the initial CPT/OPT and it is not instant.

They are actually starting with a new degree, and will need to meet the requirements for that one, it no longer has anything to do with this past training and degree. That is already a done deal.

They did not begin work last year as they did not pass the NCLEX until recently, so that was issues that they had; not their school, nor the facility that hired them. And they knew from the start that they were only going to have a very short time to work with the OPT.

And discrimination does not fit in here at all. At Will means that a facility can fire just for any reason, they do not have to have one if you take it literally.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 21, 2008

Actually, nobody is required to say anything about duration of their EAD unless asked. New nurses require 3-4 month of orientation and nobody will hire them on OPT considering the retrogression.
So when one applies for OPT it's better to request the start date at the last day of the grace period to have one full year of employment authorization after obtaining the license. Again, a person on OPT is not obligated to talk about it unless asked directly.

Sorry, but that is not the way that things should be done ever with an employer. One needs to produce the EAD and that has the expiration date right on it.

If one is not able to pass the NCLEX for months, then they are not going to be able to delay the OPT or they will not be able to remain in the US. There is only the 60 day window after one completes their classes, and if one does not pass the NCLEX, they cannot delay the start of the OPT. This is an issue that the poster had, and nothing to do with the facility or anyone else.

And legally, one must produce the EAD as it authorizes one to be able to work in the first place, any employer actually needs to see it before one can start working. It is actually a requirement, if an employer fails to ask for it, then that is an issue and they can actually be fined for that.

What you are telling someone to do is actually illegal.

Promin · Jun 21, 2008

When one applies for OPT with USCIS the start day of OPT can be postponed up to 59 days after completion of studies because there is a 60-day grace period during which one can change status, change schools or apply for OPT. For example in one graduates on Dec. 31, 2008, then 60 days grace period applies to them through March 2, 2009. So the advisor can request the OPT start date is SEVIS as March 1, 2009 although a person graduated on Dec. 31, 2008. This will buy some time to pass NCLEX and obtain a license.

Now the employer will ask for the proof of employment authorization before hiring a person. But if they make a copy of the EAD and ask no questions that means they are OK with that and the applicant is not required to explain how OPT works if people from HR don't ask about it.

We all know that if the new grad mention that he/she has only one year of employment authorization which is not renewable they will never get hired. Before retrogression hospitals were hiring people on OPT because they could petition for permanent residency for them right away. Not the case anymore as we all know.

In other works "Don't trouble troubles 'till trouble troubles you".

Promin · Jun 21, 2008

But they have actually had the OPT for a full year and not just a month so there is no way that they are going to be able to work again right away. They are going to need to go thru the same process that they did when they went for the initial CPT/OPT and it is not instant.
They are actually starting with a new degree, and will need to meet the requirements for that one, it no longer has anything to do with this past training and degree. That is already a done deal.

CPT is not OPT. CPT is considered to be a part of curriculum and has nothing to do with OPT. Since Summerbummer21 has a license already (s)he can work under CPT at the hospital affiliated with the school. The international school advisor authorizes CPT by making changes to SEVIS and printing out the new I-20. No need for approval from USCIS.

Full-time CPT should not exceed 12 month or one will become ineligible for OPT. Part-time CPT can be of any duration and does not affect OPT.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 21, 2008

When one applies for OPT with USCIS the start day of OPT can be postponed up to 59 days after completion of studies because there is a 60-day grace period during which one can change status, change schools or apply for OPT. For example in one graduates on Dec. 31, 2008, then 60 days grace period applies to them through March 2, 2009. So the advisor can request the OPT start date is SEVIS as March 1, 2009 although a person graduated on Dec. 31, 2008. This will buy some time to pass NCLEX and obtain a license.
Now the employer will ask for the proof of employment authorization before hiring a person. But if they make a copy of the EAD and ask no questions that means they are OK with that and the applicant is not required to explain how OPT works if people from HR don't ask about it.
We all know that if the new grad mention that he/she has only one year of employment authorization which is not renewable they will never get hired. Before retrogression hospitals were hiring people on OPT because they could petition for permanent residency for them right away. Not the case anymore as we all know.
In other works "Don't trouble troubles 'till trouble troubles you".

I understand what you are saying about the 60 day grace, but again, the above poster did not pass the NCLEX exam and remember that one has to pass the NCLEX exam to work as an RN. And if they do not pass, then they cannot work in any role other than as a CNA. This poster above, it very aware of that.

No one said anything about explaining, but then one is not considered to be up front with the employer. So not really a good thing at all to be withholding of information. And when one has an entire year, then that is not a big issue.

However, when one applies for a job, knowing that they are only going to be able to work for a month or two, that is just bad business. Facilities actually spend money when they hire you. In the hospital setting, the costs for every new person that they hire run around $10,000 by the time that the orientation is completed and the other expenses associated are incurred.

Going into a situation like this and not telling them is just not the thing to do, and if you were on the other end, you would be quite upset. And the other issue is that the state where this person is working is what is called an At-Will state, meaning that they can fire at any time and for no reason even. And even if they are not an At-Will state, almost every facility has a 90 day time in which to check if the person is a good fit with them or now and this is in effect even in union facilities.

Withholding information is the same as lying, no matter how you look at it. And those are not good work ethics to have.

Promin · Jun 22, 2008

Actually, the second sentence of the first post says

I've been working at a long term/acute care facility as an RN for a couple of weeks now

which means the author has passed NCLEX already.

I agree that applying for a job as new grad for the couple of months make no sense. That's why it's important to request the International school advisor to put the OPT start date in the SEVIS as "last day of the classes+59 days".

lawrence01 · Jun 22, 2008

Actually, nobody is required to say anything about duration of their EAD unless asked. New nurses require 3-4 month of orientation and nobody will hire them on OPT considering the retrogression.
So when one applies for OPT it's better to request the start date at the last day of the grace period to have one full year of employment authorization after obtaining the license. Again, a person on OPT is not obligated to talk about it unless asked directly.

That is what I meant when I said on a previous post that some applicants purposely do not say that the EAD was from an OPT and expiring soon. Have applicants done that and made full disclosure of that then they would not have been hired at all from the start.

If that EAD expires and she was hired and even signed to a contract and the employer let her stay in the job then the employer will be liable for employing someone illegally since the moment the EAD expires and could not be renewed, that applicant cannot work on a legal basis.

If the employer will be caught, they will be fined for that and the one who hired her would have risked being reprimanded, suspended or even fired. With a weak US economy no one will dare risk their job.

To put it bluntly, don't you think that could be the reason why she was let-go that way ?? Being pulled out just like that and being let-go just like that means they were very upset about it.

Promin · Jun 22, 2008

Even if one applied for employment as a new grad having an EAD valid for only a year there is no way to get hired unless they apply to the hospital that is really short of nurses. And as we know those ones are not the best to work for. So my whole point is that new grads on OPT are really screwed no matter how much OPT they have left. I would not take that risk telling my employer that my EAD is not renewable if I really wanted that job. On the other hand side I probably would not apply as a new grad if I had less then 6 month of the OPT left. And again, that is why it's important to request the start date of the OPT to be postponed as much as possible and to take some good NCLEX review course to maximize chances to pass it from the first attempt.

lawrence01 · Jun 22, 2008

Even if one applied for employment as a new grad having an EAD valid for only a year there is no way to get hired unless they apply to the hospital that is really short of nurses. And as we know those ones are not the best to work for. So my whole point is that new grads on OPT are really screwed no matter how much OPT they have left. I would not take that risk telling my employer that my EAD is not renewable if I really wanted that job. On the other hand side I probably would not apply as a new grad if I had less then 6 month of the OPT left. And again, that is why it's important to request the start date of the OPT to be postponed as much as possible and to take some good NCLEX review course to maximize chances to pass it from the first attempt.

If they won't get hired base on OPT then unfortunately they have to accept that fact as it is. Omitting a certain information so that they get hired when one fully knows that when they fully disclose it from the start that they won't get hired is fraud. If they are "screwed no matter how much OPT is left" then that's just how the cookie crumbles. It's not an excuse to withhold a certain information and esp. if that information is what will be the basis for getting hired or not and look what happened when it's finally found out.