I am really confused by the stigma and negative attitude towards new nurses from experienced nurses as I am a new nurse and just plain do not understand? aren't we all new nurses at one time, so why are "some" nurses (as I do not think it is an all inclusive thing) forgetful that they were once the person whom they reject or whatever they do? I am unclear on the reality of what transpires in reality, I just know what I hear and what I have gone through myself.
I am really curious as what the stigma is all about from real nurses and not just rumors? I have heard that an experienced nurse will refuse to help a new nurse in a situation where the new nurse does not know what to do and the experienced nurse does??? I have been told this but really this actually happens in reality? plus, who is the one who suffers in the end of a situation like that? I have a really hard time believing that nurses would do that to their own, and for what purpose or reason does anyone justify doing something like that? it was clear to me that when I entered the field of nursing that I would always be a teacher once I possessed something to teach because it is a field that is based on a foundation of knowledge in addition to experience that cannot be acquired any other eay than to be taught on a situation basis.
are the experienced nurses tired of teaching new grads or they do not feel that teaching is part of what they signed up for? are there such an abundance of new grads with the shortage that experienced nurses are overwhelmed by the new grads and their needs? I am not a twenty something new young nurse. I am a early thirties starting my career after children new nurse. I can understand from the point of going to nursing school with younger people that it is easy to be rubbed the wrong way by younger people with less life experience, is that the issue?
I can see new nurses in relation to the above statement not acknowledging the proper respect in regard to an experienced nurse, and I can see that as a big problem is this the issue? I know in my clinical experience I had great experiences with nurses that other students had poor experiences with because of the attitude for which they approached their clinicals. I met my nurse at the beginning of clinicals introduced myself and followed them everywhere they went except the bathroom all day long. we were always assigned to just one of the nurses patients, but I never met a nurse that said no to a student observing and helping with all the patients and why would I sit around while I the oppurtunity to learn just because I was only assigned the one patient. I have seen students get totally ignored because they don't act or they just don't put forth any effort. my first goal was to find and learn to do things that would be helpful to the nurse I was working with. I understood that I rank low and I do what is needed to be done and thats that, whatever it may be. I had to be cognizant of the nurse I was working with and their comfort level with me handling whatever I would handle for them. I always did things no other student did, I was trusted with more after time worked with the nurse, and I had really positive experiences and was always the person the other students went to because they didn't know how to do much or work the computer software. I was eager to learn anything I was offered, as the nurses saw my eagerness to learn they began teaching all through the day. one day, I was paired with a nurse that had 30 years of experience. I would have liked to spend a year with her, she was like my own private encyclopedia of secret information. I love to learn new things, anything new and so that drives me too.
I did face complete rejection from a whole er of nurses. our clinical instructor did not know any of the er nurses, so she stood there trying to get "noticed" at the nurses station for more than 20 minutes. even the nurses ignored her. she addressed the nurses working and said she had nursing students, and only one nurse acknowledged her with a so what and turned and walked away. our clinical instructor told us follow some person who did not acknowledge that we even existed as a human being in the world. we stood at the nurses station and when the new nurses arrived we were paired up with another nurse. I tried to plant myself in, but I kept following her as she tried to find places to use her cell phone and she kept exiting the area of er. she was not happy about my stalking her when she was doing what she was. it was the longest day of my life, I cannot do nothing but was forced to. I finally exited the nurses station and learned from the residents, as they were willing to teach me. I felt unbelievably uncomfortable because all of these nurses where aware we were students and refused to even speak to us, to say a simple hello to us. I mean we basically treated lesser than a human being by people that I had such a high regard for before I decided to become one. I felt awful that day truthfully because if this is reality for me, I don't want to be a person that treats people poorly ever. one nurse said she takes the students and set us up with a nurse that found us invisible, so we took one set of vitals and returned to stand at the wall. finally, one nurse acknowledged us that we were assigned to but she just wanted to get rid of us. it was the best day when that day was over.
I also was treated poorly in relation to an interview I want to get some opinions but I am too detailed and my posts are too long. I really just want to understand this and try to make sure I do not do any of the things that have created this stigma most importantly.
my biggest question is, when if ever will I be treated like a deserving human being in the eyes of the nursing world? a nurse told me that she likes new grads (yeah) during an interview and stated that nurses eat their young but I from what I see in relation to how nurses treat one another they are not partial they eat each other too. why are nurses not supportive of our own, and unified as one large force?
this is a real serious question, I just don't get it?
I don't mean to toot my own horn but I am 33 and I feel young is relative, so I am extremely young. People tell me that I "pretty," not that looks really relate. ALL of the experienced nurses from age 40ish to a 30 years of experience nurse treated me really well. However, I am there to learn, work, help and if I am assigned 1 patient I help with all the patients I learn more.
In regard to the looks things, as I think that as nurses we should not even be thinking about that. However, I am the case of the ugly duckling who turned into unugly duck, so I never really noticed any changes. I really truly find people attractive in relation to their inner person, really.
Dear Veracious RN, Are you for real? Seriously?
Can I tell you athing or two?
I am fantastic looking,(in my mind, lol) in every way, shape and form. I am at a very, very healthy weight for my size (yep, gasp.... again, think very) I pay big bucks so I don't have gray hair. I spent a fortune on my teeth, and I can run circles around anyone in the "report for work in a business suit" section, (cuz I know how to shop at Value Village) and then put on that white coat and go to the bedside and give direct patient care.
My only regret is my nursing life, is that Landau went out of business, and they made the best scrubs, for my value, very size. Unless we are dating, which I am pretty sure we aren't, then if you are a man, I ALSO don't care what you look like (ok, that IS a tiny white lie, I do like eye candy, especially in my morning meeting). I wear very chic glasses, cuz I can't see. NOw...what was the question again? My office is VERY nicely decorated and doesn't smell..does that get me any bonus points? What is this thread again?
Reading everyone's points of view makes me understand the ER issue better. It was my one and only experience like that, and I have seen five posts or more stating the ER is not a good place for students.
Realizing now that the nurses who are taking students are getting them without choice does make me see the side of the RN. By the way, I am an RN now:)
When you brought up being paid, I think that law needs looking into. The RN who is teaching and nursing should be getting paid for doing both jobs. They are literally doing two jobs and it is more work.
I was worried hearing some things about how the experienced nurses treat the new RN's. I got a little scared and figured to ask the nurses.
I know this........ I am a new RN without a job and look I already have an opinion. I have huge issues with lacksidasical nursing students. I know that I would not be kind to a slacker. I worked my butt off in clinicals helping anywhere I could with my patient or any patient. A student should be proving themself.
HOw can I take you serious until you SHOW me you want to learn, take the job, any job that I give you? How do you ALREADY have an opinion, I have been in health care 20 years and am never sure what the heck is going on, let alone have an opinion, other than on an anoymous message board...Stop asking us and start doing... do whatever the next person who hires you wants you to do, do it with a smile, with an open mind and jump in the deep end, without asking if that is ok.
i am not aware that there is any "stigma" and generalized "negative attitude" toward new nurses by experienced nurses. i'll grant you that some experienced nurses have a negative attitude toward some specific newer nurses . . . and usually not without reasons. there are the new nurses who think they know everything and someone who's been around for decades surely cannot know anything. there are new nurses who believe that all they need to do is show up, there are new nurses who seem to believe they should start at the top with every weekend and every holiday off. and there are some wonderful new nurses -- i know both kinds. very few of us seasoned nurses have actually forgotten what it is like to be new, but very few brand new nurses have any idea what it's like to be the experienced nurse suddenly responsible for a bunch of newbies (usually without being asked first or even warned).
the rumor about experienced nurses "not helping" new nurses seems to come mainly from new nurses who feel they should be spoon fed every bit of information they need to know to function on the unit without any effort on their part. that gets old after awhile. if i've told you how to do something three times, shown you where to find the policy or procedure on how to do it, and located an on-line reference for you and you still ask me how to do it, i'm unlikely to view that request favorably. i'm sure you understand.
in my job, there are lots, and lots of newbies, most of them on "the two year plan." they land a job in an icu, knowing that they're not planning to stay any longer than it takes them to get into anesthesia school. they have no interest in actually being an icu nurse and no stake in how our unit is managed beyond getting what they want when they want it. there are 7 of them in the last weeks of orientation now, and 9 starting in the next few weeks. that means that 21% of our staff is on orientation right now! less than 20% of our staff has been there longer than five years. when you consider that every newbie has two or three preceptors, that's an awful lot of precepting. some of us have been continually precepting since the clinton era. believe it or not, that gets old.
precepting, if you do it right, is a lot of work. it might take me 7 minutes to dash into my patient's room and do a full assessment and another four minutes or so to chart it. but if i have to teach someone how to do it, it's going to take 3 or 4 times as long. and that's an average. teaching a brand new grad to do a full assessment might take an hour; it may take half an hour to watch an orientee who is nearing the end of her orientation do the assessment, make sure she hasn't missed anything and then make sure she's charted it properly. when you get busy, the patient ultimately comes first, and i'm amazed at how many new grads don't get that. too many of them seem to believe that it's all about their orientation; the patient comes after that.
when i was a new grad -- and i remember it vividly -- new grads had a lot of respect for the experienced bedside nurse. that no longer seems to be true. too many new grads have their eyes on advanced degrees and see the seasoned nurse who is still at the bedside as a failure who has nothing to teach them. i graduated knowing i'd be working nights, weekends and holidays and expecting to pay my dues and accumulate some seniority before i'd get first dibs on the best schedules. too many new grads seem to be expecting to walk right into the hospital and have every weekend and holiday off, never to work night shift and have the managers and preceptors kowtow to their entitled demands. a few have had daddy call the nasty old preceptor or mean old manager and make threats and demands that their special snowflake be given the choice schedules right off the bat. one daddy called the president of the hospital, a golfing buddy of his, and demanded that he instruct our manager to take suzie snowflake off the schedule for the entire month of july because that's when his family was going to "the islands" for "a family vacation." (suzie doesn't work there anymore because daddy called the president of the university and demanded that suzie be given a spot in the anesthesia program after less than 8 months in the icu, 6 months of which was spent orienting.)
gone is the idea that one has to earn respect. people seem to expect to walk right in off the street and be given the same respect as an experienced nurse who has been working at the bedside for decades and actually knows the job.
gone is the idea of accepting constructive criticism. criticism, no matter how well-intentioned, is viewed as "mean". if i step in to prevent nancy from killing her patient, i'd better do it tactfully and with a soft voice, or i'm going to be written up for "being mean to nancy and making her cry." (somehow it escapes me how the one who cries is always the one "in the right" in those situations. you'd think that learning to communicate with your peers without resorting to tears would be a valued skill.)
the reality is that some preceptors are not great preceptors and some nurses would rather not have to deal with all of the extra work that having a student or a new grad following them around entails. even some wonderful, gifted preceptors go through days when we'd rather not precept. or when we know we have to precept but our minds and hearts aren't in it because we're worried that the coming hurricane will take off our roof or sink our boat, or that our mother who is ill is deteriorating fast or that our husband is losing his job. some students and new nurses seem to take that distraction as being mean to them or treating them as less than a human being. some take anything less than jumping to our feet when they enter a room and expressing our undying gratitude that they've deigned to grace us with their presence as not treating them as a human being.
if you go into a situation looking to be mistreated, eaten or disrespected, you will find mistreatment and disrespect everywhere, whether it actually exists or not. might as well go into it expecting the best -- it increases the liklihood that you'll find it.
well stated. excellent. and...experienced nurses...learn to cry on a dime...has helped me immensely, just kidding. i so agree with every word. additionally, when why when a new manager/dns starts, and the "old" staff run into the administrator's office to say what the mean dns just said or did, is that tolerated? it rarely seems to be about the patient anymore. when i hold staff accountable, and "dear god" write them up, why doesn't the corporation enforce that write-up and make it stick? you know how hard it is to get rid of "bad" staff? pretty ridiculous. i have (now) one of the softest voices imaginable...and yet, all yell "why won"t you let me talk!":. hell, i didn't "talk" as a new nurse for like 2 years, really.
I have to say I completely agree - and the ER seems to be the worst place for a student nurse. We only got one day as an ER rotation and my day was spent being the charge nurse's dog! She constantly was telling me to go clean or do very simple tasks like taking a patient's temperature.
We had a patient who had been given charcoal for alcohol poisoning and he had vomited it all over the floor. She said that I had lucked out because they already called housekeeping, otherwise she was going to have me clean their floor! Another time she asked me if anyone had shown me how to make their beds? I was stunned. I was there for only one day and hoping to learn and practice skills like starting IVs, giving meds, doing assessments, etc. Instead, she thought I was there just to help them clean!
Ok, I thought you said you were told to clean it up, so, she only informed you she was thinking that you might have to clean it up.......and making a bed, did the patient need that bed to be made? If you were sick, would you like for the RN to make that bed for you? Or should you, as the patient, WAIT until the correct bed maker comes along...and WHO would that be? BTW, did the patient live? Did you check on his/her status after you were offended by what the ER staff were THINKING about having you do? OMG, was there blood splattered anywhere near you?
I have to say I completely agree - and the ER seems to be the worst place for a student nurse. We only got one day as an ER rotation and my day was spent being the charge nurse's dog! She constantly was telling me to go clean or do very simple tasks like taking a patient's temperature.
We had a patient who had been given charcoal for alcohol poisoning and he had vomited it all over the floor. She said that I had lucked out because they already called housekeeping, otherwise she was going to have me clean their floor! Another time she asked me if anyone had shown me how to make their beds? I was stunned. I was there for only one day and hoping to learn and practice skills like starting IVs, giving meds, doing assessments, etc. Instead, she thought I was there just to help them clean!
OMG ,what is wrong with me? YOU OBJECT TO TAKING A PATIENT TEMPERATURE? And your rationale for this belief system is? Ok, can you tell me in 100 words or less, WHY you want to be a nurse? It occurs to me, perhaps the Charge nurse's rationale for what she wanted you to do is not unlike sending the father of the newborn baby to boil water? Nurses?
My first clinical, I came in contact with nurses that just did ot care to teach us. We were a nuisance and even one complained to my instructor that we were asking too many questions! It's so frustrating but these are a very select FEW nurses. In my experience, working with a lot of women is tough.. And that doesn't need to be explained any further
Just remember how you felt when you were a student and do the exact opposite when you're the teacher...you won't be able to change anyone's attitude.
In some sort of defense for nurses that seem rude and obnoxious, etc... Some students are just clueless and I have no idea how they got into school- trying to teach someone who has no idea what you're talking about is rough!
Reading everyone's points of view makes me understand the ER issue better. It was my one and only experience like that, and I have seen five posts or more stating the ER is not a good place for students.
Realizing now that the nurses who are taking students are getting them without choice does make me see the side of the RN. By the way, I am an RN now:)
When you brought up being paid, I think that law needs looking into. The RN who is teaching and nursing should be getting paid for doing both jobs. They are literally doing two jobs and it is more work.
I was worried hearing some things about how the experienced nurses treat the new RN's. I got a little scared and figured to ask the nurses.
I know this........ I am a new RN without a job and look I already have an opinion. I have huge issues with lacksidasical nursing students. I know that I would not be kind to a slacker. I worked my butt off in clinicals helping anywhere I could with my patient or any patient. A student should be proving themself.
Aside from minimum wage laws, the legal system does not care what people are paid. We do not need more laws.
If you work hard......what is the problem? You've "heard" all of this stuff- wait until you see it...... but trim down the way you present any sort of written communication. That alone will exclude you from being considered. The computers will blow up if all of the stuff you "could" write is entered :)
Like anywhere else, people are different- and often react better to those who blend in- not stand out as either arrogant or dense (not saying you're either- but don't write anybody any notes). Just go with the flow. :)
I have found that I learn exponentially more from MDs.
:chair:
Sometimes I even begin to think nurses are not a source of big info for me, other than task stuff.
:sofahider
I have trouble with people who are fussy, btchy, and want to withhold info from me... which, on the whole, tends to be nurses. Excepting a coveted few, who, some of which are my pals on AN.
I have found that I learn exponentially more from MDs.
:chair:
Sometimes I even begin to think nurses are not a source of big info for me, other than task stuff.
:sofahider
I have trouble with people who are fussy, btchy, and want to withhold info from me... which, on the whole, tends to be nurses. Excepting a coveted few, who, some of which are my pals on AN.
Yep, agreed...many people, in health care, like to withhold information, even simple things like "where is the narcotic distruction form", or "do you know that the direct line to the DEA is?" just kidding. BUt it does make for good fun.
pixie120
256 Posts
Dear Veracious RN, Are you for real? Seriously?
Can I tell you athing or two?
I am fantastic looking,(in my mind, lol) in every way, shape and form. I am at a very, very healthy weight for my size (yep, gasp.... again, think very) I pay big bucks so I don't have gray hair. I spent a fortune on my teeth, and I can run circles around anyone in the "report for work in a business suit" section, (cuz I know how to shop at Value Village) and then put on that white coat and go to the bedside and give direct patient care.
My only regret is my nursing life, is that Landau went out of business, and they made the best scrubs, for my value, very size. Unless we are dating, which I am pretty sure we aren't, then if you are a man, I ALSO don't care what you look like (ok, that IS a tiny white lie, I do like eye candy, especially in my morning meeting). I wear very chic glasses, cuz I can't see. NOw...what was the question again? My office is VERY nicely decorated and doesn't smell..does that get me any bonus points? What is this thread again?