Why do parents think schools are daycares?

kidzcare · Nov 23, 2016

Oh right, I forgot. Teachers, school nurses and others in the education system aren't humans. They are mere androids designed to attend to the needs of YOUR special snowflake. We exist to serve you and yours. What a bonehead.

I think it's sticks with the mindset that if we get the summer off then we are not allowed to complain about any aspect of our job. Just like a stay at home mom can't complain about being busy or someone who lives above the poverty level cannot complain about the prices of things :sarcastic:

Flare, ASN, BSN · Nov 23, 2016

I sometimes pose the question to parents when they give me grief about picking up their child "would you want your child to sit next to a student having the same symptoms as your child all day long?" I really don't send students home unless it's a necessity and thanks to my charting system, I can look up in an instant how many and when the last time was. In a school of 800, I maybe send home 10 children per week. maybe less. I know i'm sending a lot more back to class than i'm sending home. I may make an FYI call, but many of those FYI calls are because if i don't i get my head bit off that the parent didn't know that their snowflake was seen for a headache. I've been beaten into submission by some parents and can't wait for the graduation of some students (or more accurately their parents!!)

Life happens. Occasionally you need to take time away from work to tend to your child. Hack, I don't care if it's even you. Someone needs to come though.

I've already had to have the police go to a house to fetch a parent because I had a student having a medical crisis and could not reach ANY of the parents and no emergency contacts listed. The parents were home and didn't have a good reason for not answering their phones or checking their voice mails. I'm not calling to say "How about them Mets!"

As far as staff inservices and conferences - yes, these are planned in advance. Again most families can make plans. My daughter is in my school and my husband works. I have made arrangements for her every inservice and conference day so far by planning for her to go with a friend or to her grandparents. Snowdays, i understand are unexpected as are delays. But again - the alternative is to create an unsafe situation. Then when tragedy strikes because students had to go to school in snow and got injured the criticism will rear it's ugly head again. You can't please everyone.

OrganizedChaos, LVN · Nov 26, 2016

Clearly people making those comments don't know any nurses or teachers.

My MIL is a teacher & she gets home around 5/6, doesn't go to bed until 12a & then wakes up at 5:30 to start it all over again. She goes to countless inservices during the school year &a during summer. Of course she gets paid but that's time taken away from relaxing.

Do I think the educational system needs to be changed? Oh heck yeah. But I don't think it will happen soon. Like a PP stated, the taxes in other countries are higher & delegated differently than here. I'm sure as hell no teacher or nurse would want to work more hours for the same (little) pay.

Skippingtowork · Nov 27, 2016

Devil's advocate... you did this off the clock?
What changes would you suggest? It would take a major overhaul to change the national standard to year round school. And not just because those who work in schools many times have chosen their career with that benefit in mind. For example, summer is a time that many kids play organized sports without having to worry about grades dropping.

No to year round school. Been there done that. I'm suggesting that other than major holidays and traditional breaks, those kids need to be in school. As far as completing forms, MDs and NPs are generally salaried and unless they charge for the school forms (which we didn't) you don't get reimbursed. I filled forms out all the time and NO I did not get paid. National standards should apply to these forms. They should all be in the same, retreivable online and fillable on computer. Then be placed in patient chart for future references. That is super easy to do and does not take effort beyond cooperation from the powers that be.

kidzcare · Nov 27, 2016

No to year round school. Been there done that. I'm suggesting that other than major holidays and traditional breaks, those kids need to be in school. As far as completing forms, MDs and NPs are generally salaried and unless they charge for the school forms (which we didn't) you don't get reimbursed. I filled forms out all the time and NO I did not get paid. National standards should apply to these forms. They should all be in the same, retreivable online and fillable on computer. Then be placed in patient chart for future references. That is super easy to do and does not take effort beyond cooperation from the powers that be.

But signing orders is a part of the job, therefore covered under the salary. Many forms are standard (asthma action plans, diabetic action plans, seizure action plans) and retrievable online. Since each patient would need an individualized action plan, it NEEDS to be filled out by the PCP or specialist to act as orders during an emergency.

Other forms that need to be filled out by someone at the physician office would be physicals (needed so that students can be deemed healthy enough to participate in PE/sports/general classroom activities) and medication orders. Just as in any health care setting, we cannot administer a medication without an order. At the SNF I work at PRN, I cannot give tums without a dr order either.

Skippingtowork · Nov 28, 2016

But signing orders is a part of the job, therefore covered under the salary. Many forms are standard (asthma action plans, diabetic action plans, seizure action plans) and retrievable online. Since each patient would need an individualized action plan, it NEEDS to be filled out by the PCP or specialist to act as orders during an emergency.
Other forms that need to be filled out by someone at the physician office would be physicals (needed so that students can be deemed healthy enough to participate in PE/sports/general classroom activities) and medication orders. Just as in any health care setting, we cannot administer a medication without an order. At the SNF I work at PRN, I cannot give tums without a dr order either.

Sorry, but there is no reimbursement for these forms and they are not part of the doctor visit. If we don't charge the patient (as we didn't, because many could not afford it), then we don't get paid. We cannot see patients all day and still fill out volumes of forms. They all need action plans. Also, where we were, the forms were not online. As for forms for sports, there is no legal requirement to complete one, especially without charging. When you are salaried, you do not get paid for everything you do. Some of your work is just to be helpful or kind.

My comments are not directed at school nurses and do not apply. So if you are a school nurse I feel your pain, but I'm not referring to your job. I know what it is and know your restrictions.

kidzcare · Nov 28, 2016

Sorry, but there is no reimbursement for these forms and they are not part of the doctor visit. If we don't charge the patient (as we didn't, because many could not afford it), then we don't get paid. We cannot see patients all day and still fill out volumes of forms. They all need action plans. Also, where we were, the forms were not online. As for forms for sports, there is no legal requirement to complete one, especially without charging. When you are salaried, you do not get paid for everything you do. Some of your work is just to be helpful or kind.
My comments are not directed at school nurses and do not apply. So if you are a school nurse I feel your pain, but I'm not referring to your job. I know what it is and know your restrictions.

A google search found me this: http://www.lung.org/assets/documents/asthma/asthma-action-plan.pdf

If not the treating physician/NP, who should fill out the forms?

SchoolNurseTXstyle · Nov 28, 2016

I have an answer that will solve everyone's problem: BIRTH CONTROL

Sorry, but one must reap what that sow!!!

MrNurse(x2), ADN · Nov 29, 2016

As far as completing forms, MDs and NPs are generally salaried and unless they charge for the school forms (which we didn't) you don't get reimbursed. I filled forms out all the time and NO I did not get paid. National standards should apply to these forms. They should all be in the same, retreivable online and fillable on computer. Then be placed in patient chart for future references. That is super easy to do and does not take effort beyond cooperation from the powers that be.

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The irony is most pediatricians are in favor of the limitations that the schools mandate, yet, according to you, complain with the forms necessary to implement them. I have had a pediatrician that charged $35 to complete state mandated vaccination forms, I called the state DOE to complain and they promptly called the pediatrician, amazingly the office waived the fee. I understand pediatrics is the lowest paid of all specialties, but forms are necessities, normally mandated by law. This is part of doing business. Our state does have a standard form, but many pediatric offices refuse to use them.

Skippingtowork · Nov 29, 2016

A google search found me this: http://www.lung.org/assets/documents/asthma/asthma-action-plan.pdf
If not the treating physician/NP, who should fill out the forms?

Sorry, couldn't use this. Forms came straight from each school. Since we served several counties, the forms were different. That is a nice form.

The MD/NP fills the forms. I said we didn't charge for them because most of our patients could not afford it. We are salaried,not hourly. At the end of the 8-9 hour day, we had to complete volumes of forms. No MAs to help. Adding it all up, we as NPs were making very little, but still did it.

Skippingtowork · Nov 29, 2016

.
The irony is most pediatricians are in favor of the limitations that the schools mandate, yet, according to you, complain with the forms necessary to implement them. I have had a pediatrician that charged $35 to complete state mandated vaccination forms, I called the state DOE to complain and they promptly called the pediatrician, amazingly the office waived the fee. I understand pediatrics is the lowest paid of all specialties, but forms are necessities, normally mandated by law. This is part of doing business. Our state does have a standard form, but many pediatric offices refuse to use them.

My complaint was not in completing forms, but the number of forms and the inconsistency of the forms. It should be the same form for the entire state, public and private for each condition, available and fillable on-line. It takes a lot of time. I have never heard of someone charging $35 for vaccine forms. All vaccines should be placed in the state system to be retrieved by other physicians or schools as needed.

kidzcare · Nov 29, 2016

Sorry, couldn't use this. Forms came straight from each school. Since we served several counties, the forms were different. That is a nice form.
The MD/NP fills the forms. I said we didn't charge for them because most of our patients could not afford it. We are salaried,not hourly. At the end of the 8-9 hour day, we had to complete volumes of forms. No MAs to help. Adding it all up, we as NPs were making very little, but still did it.

My point is, that filling out forms is a part of the job. Just like charting and ordering supplies is a part of my daily work. Is writing a prescription for a patient considered above and beyond a dr or np's duties? This is no different.

I don't want an argument here. The fact remains that we need these forms on file in order to properly treat our patient population in the event of an emergency. If a parent cannot bring one in to us because the dr office would not fill one out without charging, then we could feasibly delay necessary treatment which could lead to worse outcomes.