Why the double standard.

kp2016 · Aug 16, 2019

I had this exact situation in a previous job. The male nurses expected us to step in and do all intimate procedures on their female patients. They were not happy when I insisted they they do all intimate procedures on our male patients.

I honestly think that if you are a professional your gender shouldn't matter unless a patient specifically requests a nurse of their own gender. I only made a point of enforcing this as I felt my male colleagues were taking advantage of us to cherry pick which tasks they felt like doing.

Maxx0763 · Feb 16

Reverse the script. If a male were the "non-threatening" ones and the females were the unduly stigmatized, males would not see an opportunity to exchange favors and just do their required responsibilities. Seems like manipulation where females use a disadvantaged (negative sexual stigma and stereotype, though no fault of their own which permeates thru every facet of society) position to impart mundane duties to males. And males do care, it's social conditioning, and non expressive stoicism, not comfort that allows to be treated by females. Modify the system where either males can tend to females in intimate care, or employ more male personnel. If the problem was inverted and female genitals were on the line, it would immediately be addressed, rectified, and resolved.

Maxx0763 · Feb 17

RN2364 said:

So I work in a busy ER. When a male nurse has a female patient who needs a pelvic, foley or straight cath the men automatically come to us female nurses without even a conversation with the patient / family. Even if the patient is unconscious they won't even try.

On on the other hand if I have a make patient who needs and exam, foley, straight cats or STD swabs I have to do these myself. If I ask a male nurse (even the ones who just had you do a female foley) they look at me like I am not only crazy but I am being lazy and trying to get out of work and push it off onto them.

I don't understand this double standard. It has happened in every hospital I have worked in. Maybe someone could explain the thinking.. Also is their a good way to approach this with a male colleague without hurting feelings or pointing fingers.

One other thing... does this logic or thinking apply to the lesbian nurse. She she not be required to do these for the same reason the male nurse is not....?

any insight is extremely valuable

Because we know the inevitable outcome will be due to mandatorily required policies and guidelines, with associated legal/social/cultural expectations, is to enlist a FEMALE.

You do both male and female patients unencumbered without the stigma and ostracization we as males endure. You should be so fortunate. I would diligently do my tasks unimpeded but are handcuffed by both intrinsic/extrinsic factors and by no fault of my own, be labeled a sexual threat and limited when it comes to female intimate care. Which is worse to be labeled a victim/oppressed without ever being victimized while receiving all its benefits, or being labeled a predator and forced to be supervised by another female while innocent and branded with the detriments. Blame society. That's the current playback. You're not doing any favors.

You don't understand this double standard. Let me enlighten you. Women in society in regards to sexuality are provided protection, and safeguards with or without consent (males are exempt). Men are penalized, left out of the equation, discouraged, and are treated in an infantile manner in regards to intimate female care. It's not our fault the standard exists. Solution is to let males treat females alone and improve your fragile psyche (males are treated/examined by females plus female chaperones all the time) or put a freeze on female hirings and employ an influx of male RN's (actually all general healthcare providers/workers) to level the playing field.
I'm sure lesbians, and gays have their own societal/cultural dynamics to deal with.

Maxx0763 · Feb 18

RN2364 said:

First of all I don't disrespect male nurses. I don't think they are "gay" or "perverts" or anything stupid. To me they are colleagues! People who think that way are idiots in my opinion. I do understand the sexual battery/assault issues but as women we can be faced with the same these days. I have to have a chaperone when I cath a male or female patient for my protection. You never know who is going accuse or blame. The whole double standard question has gotten blow way out of context here. I was only using it in this situation and not nursing in general. As nurses we should respect and support each other and not "eat our own" like it always has been. All I am asking is why some male nurses think it's OK to have female nurses do their female patient caths without checking with the patient to see if they mind. Also they have a problem when I ask to have them do a male catch for me. That's the double standard I am referring to, nothing else as we could discuss that all day and never agree.

You don't think personally that males are "perverts". Well society does and imposes this pervasive sterotype in all facets which permeates into work responsibilities when interacting with the opposite sex of an intimate nature. You think chaperoning is equated. You can cath both sexes equally alone if warranted. Males don't have that privilege and the chaperone is mandatorily required to be female. The blame, and accusations are almost exclusively female. Males are not respected and if we were supported, those guidelines, and policies in regards to treatment of an intimate nature would be equally addressed, enforced, and practiced. But, it's not except on "documentary filings". Your asking if a female consents to a cath, or have another male as chaperone, it would be okay. If all things equal, sure. I've never witnessed that scenario happen in various settings in many environments. I could get into the dynamics but it lengthy, taxing, and superfluous. Females are safeguarded, and protected, that even when they feel comfortable and consents, a female chaperone is still mandatorily required. No such entitlements are given to males. The double standard exists unjustly imposed by society benefits females. As males, we are handcuffed and restricted be fortunate you have the freedoms to do whatever you want. When you assist us you're not doing any favors, but when you use that as leverage when we help you it's a favor. Just realize those realities, from a males perspective what we have to contend with. We're not displacing responsibilities because of convenience, or intolerance, it's because we're bound and we have to.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 18

Why is there a double standard? Maybe because males in healthcare settings have abused trust and vulnerable patients since forever. Not all of them, not even lots of them, but the trauma and damage is pretty remarkable, affects lots of patients and will continue to color delivery of care if we pretend it isn't an issue.

https://hbr.org/2018/11/sexual-harassment-is-rampant-in-health-care-heres-how-to-stop-it

Maxx0763 · Feb 18

toomuchbaloney said:

Why is there a double standard? Maybe because males in healthcare settings have abused trust and vulnerable patients since forever. Not all of them, not even lots of them, but the trauma and damage is pretty remarkable, affects lots of patients and will continue to color delivery of care if we pretend it isn't an issue.

https://hbr.org/2018/11/sexual-harassment-is-rampant-in-health-care-heres-how-to-stop-it

Really, males are instructed to acquiesce to authority, and conduct themselves stoicly, even when abused, and berated by females from inception till death. If males protested, and complained that metric would be comparable. If it's not reported and compiled as a statistic, it's okay?
I used to be a bartender, and personal trainer before getting into healthcare. I've had my junk, arms, *** grabbed and chest/shoulder/back touched by more women without consent than my massage therapist. So have a lot of my friends. Females are way more physically aggressive, and lascivious than men are because what is socially permissable, acceptable and allowable. But they can turn that on and off switch of that nature off but males can't? Its a hypocritical paradox where females can openly fondle/grope/touch a man without consent for fear of being reprimanded, penalized, or punished. They use that double standard to the fullest extant knowing males are legally handcuffed, and what is "permissable" by females in that sexual dynamic. The public view is naive, ignorant, and supressed from facts and truth. All is not what it appears to be.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 18

Maxx0763 said:

Really, males are instructed to acquiesce to authority, and conduct themselves stoicly, even when abused, and berated by females from inception till death. If males protested, and complained that metric would be comparable. If it's not reported and compiled as a statistic, it's okay?
I used to be a bartender, and personal trainer before getting into healthcare. I've had my junk, arms, *** grabbed and chest/shoulder/back touched by more women without consent than my massage therapist. So have a lot of my friends. Females are way more physically aggressive, and lascivious than men are because what is socially permissable, acceptable and allowable. But they can turn that on and off switch of that nature off but males can't? Its a hypocritical paradox where females can openly fondle/grope/touch a man without consent for fear of being reprimanded, penalized, or punished. They use that double standard to the fullest extant knowing males are legally handcuffed, and what is "permissable" by females in that sexual dynamic. The public view is naive, ignorant, and supressed from facts and truth. All is not what it appears to be.

Sure.

That's quite a victim complex right there.

Welcome to AN, btw.

Maxx0763 · Feb 18

toomuchbaloney said:

Sure.

That's quite a victim complex right there.

Welcome to AN, btw.

Thank you,

I'm the "perpetrator", remember. Stating facts and realities.

No problem.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 18

Maxx0763 said:

Thank you,

I'm the "perpetrator", remember. Stating facts and realities.

No problem.

Nah, you just shared a delusion where men are endangered because of violent and aggressive women. It was comical in a somewhat sinister fashion.

Maxx0763 · Feb 19

toomuchbaloney said:

Nah, you just shared a delusion where men are endangered because of violent and aggressive women. It was comical in a somewhat sinister fashion.

That's the sheltered world you live in. Biased, partisaned, and narcissistic with apathetic, and indifferent perspectives. Advantageous/Egalitarian when it benefits you, unrecognized when it's to your disadvantage.

The original premise was the dissatisfaction expressed by female nurses when asked to exchange disqualifying work duties for mundane ones.

It's not a favor you're doing us, it's mandatorily required. Were forced to relinquish those responsibilities unrelated to competence. Unless those policies, and guidelines are equally enforced, thats the reason you receive that type of attitude, contempt, and impudence. If females were set to the same standards, and principles as males, their would be no discussion.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 20

Maxx0763 said:

That's the sheltered world you live in. Biased, partisaned, and narcissistic with apathetic, and indifferent perspectives. Advantageous/Egalitarian when it benefits you, unrecognized when it's to your disadvantage.

The original premise was the dissatisfaction expressed by female nurses when asked to exchange disqualifying work duties for mundane ones.

It's not a favor you're doing us, it's mandatorily required. Were forced to relinquish those responsibilities unrelated to competence. Unless those policies, and guidelines are equally enforced, thats the reason you receive that type of attitude, contempt, and impudence. If females were set to the same standards, and principles as males, their would be no discussion.

Then you shouldn't be limited to supporting your notion with only your feelings or beliefs. You should be able to provide some credible data that demonstrate the risk that females represent to males in a wide variety of settings. It's sort of telling that you've yet to link to any supporting data or evidence.

FiremedicMike, RN, EMT-P · Feb 29

toomuchbaloney said:

Why is there a double standard? Maybe because males in healthcare settings have abused trust and vulnerable patients since forever. Not all of them, not even lots of them, but the trauma and damage is pretty remarkable, affects lots of patients and will continue to color delivery of care if we pretend it isn't an issue.

https://hbr.org/2018/11/sexual-harassment-is-rampant-in-health-care-heres-how-to-stop-it

So this entire situation is our fault because of the actions of a few? Interesting..