White House offers information on proposes health care reform

MaritesaRN · Aug 10, 2009

i do not trust the government with my child's education and would never put my kid in a government indoctrination camp. this is actually a perfect example of what happens when the government controls something....they screw it up. high school grads from government skrewls are mostly bumbling idiots who could not even name who the speaker of the house is, much less get into a discussion regarding the three branches of government in the united states. ask a typical high school kid to solve a simple problem involving a quadratic equation. they will look at you and drool. every year we (taxpayers) throw more money at public education and each year our kids get more stoopid!
another example...cash for clunkers. this bs lasted one week before running out of money. to save it they had to steal money from another government program. cash for clunkers is a drop in the bucket compared to the socialist health insurance they want to force on us. imagine how much money they will soon be stealing from us when that program fouls up.
there are better plans out there that have been proposed than this obamacare crap.

you know , let me be blunt ......we also need to clean up some of the government departments and get those deadwood out of there and replace them with functional and efficient people. i also do not trust some parts of the goverment , but to refuse a change of a failing health system is suicidal ! there are some people working for the government that are not productive , they need to be fired.but the government itself should and must and will be the primary figure to initiate this much needed health reform change.

i have to send my grandaughter to a public school because i do not have the money to send her to a private school ! so let us work on that public school too. . not all people are rich to afford or send their kids to a private school !!!! do you have any idea how much that cost? people are barely eating !

you critized the health plan reform and yet you did not present any "better" plan. when you do that you are just ******** and not part of the solution. you complain but you have no alternative ....so the health reform is the "obama crap" , what would you suggest that we do? this is the mentality that reminds me of the french revolution------ if they do not have bread then they (the people ) can eat cake !!!!! :confused:

vintagemother, BSN, CNA, LVN, RN · Aug 10, 2009

i do not trust the government with my child's education and would never put my kid in a government indoctrination camp. this is actually a perfect example of what happens when the government controls something....they screw it up...

:yeahthat:

i pay taxes and mello roos to support public school and also pay for my kids to go to private school.

i was very involved with my local public school system for several years before i faced the fact that the system is inherently flawed, partly because the "customer's" [ie] parent and students have no real power. the gov't run health care system is likely to have the same flaws. i pray it doesn't, though.

i used to be on welfare and medi-cal, i know the differences between "normal" health insurance and government run health insurance. you don't get the same appointments, access to medicine, procedures, etc on medi-cal. and you have no choices.

i know that reform of some sort is needed. i've been self-employed for nearly 10 years, and for 2 of those, my dh was laid off from work. i was paying monthly for medical insurance for me and our 2 kids-as much as $300/mo, but he wasn't covered because no-one would insure him since he had diabetes. his meds alone cost $200.

i think that all areas of the problem need to be examined. the needs of people as well as the needs of the insurance companies and employers. the govt doesn't have a record of running their own business well-like balancing the budget, running other govt programs like schools, medi-cal, etc. people need choices. health care is too important to take away choice and options.

my solution would be a simple optional plan that people without insurance could pay into and then the govt would provide care. if i had to pay a small flat tax to make that available to people who don't have insurance, then maybe that would be ok with me. i don't think program eligibility should be income based. there are some people with "high" income who either can't afford insurance or don't have insurance through their job. in cali, to be eligible for medical, you have to make less than the federal poverty line, which used to mean that if you work full time minimum wage in

cali, you aren't eligible for medical.

i don't believe that the govt can afford to give away quality health care.

that whitehouse link didn't include wording specific enough for me to believe that they will do this without creating additional problems.

Agrippa · Aug 10, 2009

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/
Halfway down the page:
There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to [email protected].
Hmm. Stalinist Russia, anyone?
Also, try redstate.com for another view on the health care situation.

So the White House wants to make sure that the disinformation being spread by sites like RedState.com and people like Rush Limbaugh is properly addressed and asks people to let them know. This is somehow Stalinist Russia? Typical Republican boogeyman tactics. Reeks of McCarthism.

The thing is, even with the unprecedented transparency of Obama's Administration, nothing will make Republicans happy. Their whole goal is to be obstructionists at every point possible. Now they're trying to disrupts townhall meetings with these stupid antics so no discussion can occur at all. Childish really.

tiggerforhim · Aug 10, 2009

@tiggerforhim:
Interesting. I always thought that Stalinist Russia was characterized by political assassinations and mass murders, not health care reform. Perhaps I should read up on my history.

Well, the tactics being used are definitely reminiscent of Stalinist Russia. You do realize that the political assassinations/mass murders were aided and abetted by tactics like this - informing on those around, whether neighbors or not. It was a very good tactic to get rid of an opponent, you know, just drop a line into the little bird's ear, and watch them get hauled away. Of course, then you yourself would get hauled away ... but oh, well, never mind. I don't object to health care reform, just this particular way of doing things. And yes, I've lived in a former Soviet republic and was spied upon as well.

Agrippa · Aug 10, 2009

Please, no one's buying this propaganda. Talk about Stalist Russia.

Its like me telling my friends to let me know if they hear any slander or libel about me so I can actually give them the truth. This isn't anything subjective either - Repuglicans are spreading simply false rumors about what is contained in the Bill ei. "Democrats are going to make you kill your grandma!"

If demonstrably false rumors were being spread about me, I would like to know about it so I can at least try to get the truth out there.

MaritesaRN · Aug 10, 2009

:yeahthat:
i pay taxes and mello roos to support public school and also pay for my kids to go to private school.
i was very involved with my local public school system for several years before i faced the fact that the system is inherently flawed, partly because the "customer's" [ie] parent and students have no real power. the gov't run health care system is likely to have the same flaws. i pray it doesn't, though.
i used to be on welfare and medi-cal, i know the differences between "normal" health insurance and government run health insurance. you don't get the same appointments, access to medicine, procedures, etc on medi-cal. and you have no choices.
i know that reform of some sort is needed. i've been self-employed for nearly 10 years, and for 2 of those, my dh was laid off from work. i was paying monthly for medical insurance for me and our 2 kids-as much as $300/mo, but he wasn't covered because no-one would insure him since he had diabetes. his meds alone cost $200.
i think that all areas of the problem need to be examined. the needs of people as well as the needs of the insurance companies and employers. the govt doesn't have a record of running their own business well-like balancing the budget, running other govt programs like schools, medi-cal, etc. people need choices. health care is too important to take away choice and options.
my solution would be a simple optional plan that people without insurance could pay into and then the govt would provide care. if i had to pay a small flat tax to make that available to people who don't have insurance, then maybe that would be ok with me. i don't think program eligibility should be income based. there are some people with "high" income who either can't afford insurance or don't have insurance through their job. in cali, to be eligible for medical, you have to make less than the federal poverty line, which used to mean that if you work full time minimum wage in
cali, you aren't eligible for medical.
i don't believe that the govt can afford to give away quality health care.
that whitehouse link didn't include wording specific enough for me to believe that they will do this without creating additional problems.

:yeah:

very astute w/ your thinking. thank you for that . all the things you said , and that is probably why the "government " word is scaring everybody , simply because they do not have a good track record. i am not arguing and defending blindly . it is just that we really need an alternative , another venue aside from the private insurance. one of the rockefeller's quoted , that the private insurance is in the game for the money---- now coming from a rich , rich man , that is a credible opinion,don't you think?

the point is that i like the idea that there is a competetion for the private insurance and will make premiums lower , not to mention to allow the "high risks" or pre existence to be insured ! with the goverment offering an alternative , it will create a competetion ....and like any businessess , it is good for the consumer or customer to have this competetion for better and affordable prices. yes, we have a long way to overhaul the whole system , and this health care reform is a start, so let us be a part of the solution to fix the system. :nurse:

Agrippa · Aug 10, 2009

Republican argument out of their playbook.

1. Every public school isn't great. This is because of the government. Thus, everything the government is involved in will be bad including healthcare.

Please...if this is the level of your critical thinking, I really have nothing else to add. For one, school performance is clearly much more complex than it being funded by the government. Socioeconomic factors, family lives, nutrition, teachers, etc are all factors. Furthermore, state government controls education more than the Federal Government.

Secondly, I went to a public school and graduated magma cum laude from a top 50 Public university. 85% of my graduating class went to college. I'm pretty happy with my education. But of course, this doesn't mean all public school are good. But it doesn't mean they're all bad either.

This generalization that everything government touches is intellectually lazy at best and political propaganda at worst. I'm confident that most people on this board can cut through this weak argument.

RedCell · Aug 11, 2009

you critized the health plan reform and yet you did not present any "better" plan. when you do that you are just ******** and not part of the solution. you complain but you have no alternative ....so the health reform is the "obama crap" , what would you suggest that we do? this is the mentality that reminds me of the french revolution------ if they do not have bread then they (the people ) can eat cake !!!!!

i see this mantra repeated a lot on my favorite website (other than allnurses of course) democraticunderground. the fact of the matter is that there have been other ideas presented that were largely drawn up by guys like ryan, kyl, coburn etc. the plans require more personal accountability and less government involvement. due to the current liberal majority in the legislative and executive branches, the alternative solutions have been ignored because they do not involve increasing the power of the government.

i cannot see how anyone who has actually read barry's bill can come away and give it their support. i think tiggerforhim is on to something! marx could not have done a better job if he had written this bill himself. "from each according to his ability to each according to his need" is the basic theme of this crazed document.

a couple of snippets from the goodies that can be found inside....

-government committees to decide on treatments

-mandatory requirement for private insurance to participate in the healthcare exchange

-an appointment of a healthcare commissioner to decide health benefits for you (we have more czars in the usa now than mother russia ever had)

-section 1401 alone is one of the silliest strings of consonants and vowels i have ever seen!

-hospitals being monetarily penalized if big brother does not deem you followed their treatment plan

seriously man, the hits just keep on coming the more you get into this thing. i encourage people to go a step beyond their elected officials and actually read this thing.

by the way, nothing in the government is efficient. take a look at the postal service. another government entity that asks for more money each year,yet continues to provide the american public with unpredictable and lackluster service.

Agrippa · Aug 11, 2009

i see this mantra repeated a lot on my favorite website (other than allnurses of course) democraticunderground. the fact of the matter is that there have been other ideas presented that were largely drawn up by guys like ryan, kyl, coburn etc. the plans require more personal accountability and less government involvement. due to the current liberal majority in the legislative and executive branches, the alternative solutions have been ignored because they do not involve increasing the power of the government.
i cannot see how anyone who has actually read barry's bill can come away and give it their support. i think tiggerforhim is on to something! marx could not have done a better job if he had written this bill himself. "from each according to his ability to each according to his need" is the basic theme of this crazed document.
a couple of snippets from the goodies that can be found inside....
-government committees to decide on treatments
-mandatory requirement for private insurance to participate in the healthcare exchange
-an appointment of a healthcare commissioner to decide health benefits for you (we have more czars in the usa now than mother russia ever had)
-section 1401 alone is one of the silliest strings of consonants and vowels i have ever seen!
-hospitals being monetarily penalized if big brother does not deem you followed their treatment plan
seriously man, the hits just keep on coming the more you get into this thing. i encourage people to go a step beyond their elected officials and actually read this thing.
by the way, nothing in the government is efficient. take a look at the postal service. another government entity that asks for more money each year,yet continues to provide the american public with unpredictable and lackluster service.

all of your "facts" are simply false. please cite exactly where and in which bill you are referring to.

furthermore, i don't quite know what your point about the post office is. i can get someone to come to my home, pick up a letter, put it on a truck, put it on a airplane, fly it to new york or la in 1-10 days for less than $0.50. i''m pretty happy. this is such a ridiculous argument that it would be funny if i didn't know that people are actually using such logic to work against healthcare reform.

RedCell · Aug 11, 2009

Just like a democratic to make someone else do their homework for them. Okay, you twisted my arm far enough. I will do it for you. But, you still need to read the ‘book’. My Cliff Notes are not meant to be a substitute for all of the insanity described in this plan. Read pages 84, 42, 30, 280. That will get you started and reference my “simply false” facts.

Oh this is one of my personal favorites, the government will have direct access to individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer of payments to them. Yeah, read page 59 too.

Here is the bill….

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

Agrippa · Aug 11, 2009

Just like a democratic to make someone else do their homework for them. Okay, you twisted my arm far enough. I will do it for you. But, you still need to read the ‘book’. My Cliff Notes are not meant to be a substitute for all of the insanity described in this plan. Read pages 84, 42, 30, 280. That will get you started and reference my “simply false” facts.
Oh this is one of my personal favorites, the government will have direct access to individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer of payments to them. Yeah, read page 59 too.
Here is the bill….
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

Yes, just like a "democratic" to ask for sources. We don't go by the "gut" - we check facts. Since you twisted my arm, I'll do your due diligence for you and actually look at the bill in question. I actually don't identify myself by political parties but my my own ideological beliefs. Parties are always adjusting their beliefs but I vote on issues.

Anyway, this was what I was hoping you would do when I asked you to cite. Lets look at what you threw out. Your favorite part about electronic funds transfer you're referring to is as follows:

‘‘(4) REQUIREMENTS FOR SPECIFIC STAND10
ARDS.—The standards under this section shall be
11 developed, adopted and enforced so as to—
12 ‘‘(A) clarify, refine, complete, and expand,
13 as needed, the standards required under section
14 1173;
15 ‘‘(B) require paper versions of standard16
ized transactions to comply with the same
17 standards as to data content such that a fully
18 compliant, equivalent electronic transaction can
19 be populated from the data from a paper
20 version;
21 ‘‘© enable electronic funds transfers, in
22 order to allow automated reconciliation with the
23 related health care payment and remittance ad24
vice;
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00059 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
60
•HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(D) require timely and transparent claim
2 and denial management processes, including
3 tracking, adjudication, and appeal processing;
4 ‘‘(E) require the use of a standard elec5
tronic transaction with which health care pro6
viders may quickly and efficiently enroll with a
7 health plan to conduct the other electronic
8 transactions provided for in this part; and
9 ‘‘(F) provide for other requirements relat10
ing to administrative simplification as identified
11 by the Secretary, in consultation with stake12
holders.

This is also in the context where we're trying to go into electronic medical records. Wow...Democrat"ics" are trying to update the healthcare system to run more efficiently with less waste, less paper work and less administrative hassle. You know, what every other westernized industrial nation has. I suppose you can just try to label that as Socialist!!! GASP. :chuckle

Lets do this again. You cite page 84. Lets see what is says in context.

(1) REQUIRED OFFERING OF BASIC PLAN.—The
16 entity offers only one basic plan for such service
17 area.
18 (2) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF ENHANCED
19 PLAN.—If and only if the entity offers a basic plan
20 for such service area, the entity may offer one en21
hanced plan for such area.
22 (3) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM PLAN.—
23 If and only if the entity offers an enhanced plan for
24 such service area, the entity may offer one premium
25 plan for such area.
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00084 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
85
•HR 3200 IH
1 (4) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM-PLUS
2 PLANS.—If and only if the entity offers a premium
3 plan for such service area, the entity may offer one
4 or more premium-plus plans for such area.
5 All such plans may be offered under a single contract with
6 the Commissioner.
7 © SPECIFICATION

So this is outlining the basics of what kind of different options will be available if you choose to enter into the public option. You can have a basic, an optional enhanced, an optional premium, and then an optional premium plus. This is still just the public option. If you want further supplemental insurance, you can get more in the private market. So what is it about this that is so bad? No one is forcing you to accept the plan. Keep whatever you've got if you'd like.

Meanwhile, we're going to start covering people so that they can get help at the front end through early preventative care saving our system money, instead of them having to wait until their treatable condition gets so bad and we have to treat them in the ER, the most expensive way possible.

The other pages you've cited is equally shallow and unexamined. You clearly went to some extreme right wing website who took a cursory look at the bill, got some boogie man topics that out of context may look strange, and then just posted it here because it supports your already stalwart conservative position.

Sorry, sell that garbage somewhere else.

canigraduate · Aug 11, 2009

Thanks, guys, for hijacking the thread with your rants. Go play somewhere else. Moderator, I ask you to close this thread.