What would you do?

[MommyJoy]

The school I attend has a very strict attendance policy. Last week, one of my classmates was absent. However, I noticed that his girlfriend signed him in. During class the teacher noticed that he was missing, and his girlfriend stated that he was in the restroom. This was not true, as he was gone the entire day, and I know for a fact that she signed him in.

If this were you, would you inform the dean? I mean it is not fair for one student to get credit, while the rest of us walk on pins and needles hoping we don't ever have a legitimate reason to be gone.

[Works2xs]

I'd suggest a review of your school's Honor Code. It probably addresses the issue of not reporting a violation when you are aware of one.

One of the tough things about choosing to turn your head in these instances is judging the fallout of inaction. Did others witness the same event? Did they or will they make a report? If so, will they include the names of those others who saw it? Are you prepared to defend yourself if you are implicated in your silence? Is it even worth the chance to YOUR education to knowingly violate your school's honor code for the person you saw breaking the rules? Is the person(s) you're protecting going to give you a pile-of-dried-dog-turd's worth of consideration if your inaction leads to a penalty?

There are probably a number of ways to deal with this situation, running the span of reporting it to the instructor to talking to the violators directly. But letting the behavior go without comment just cheapens the hard work of you and everybody else in the program. Doing nothing just encourages others to follow suit. Not to mention, if the instructor really is wise to these people's action, what's the likely result if nobody says anything? Is the entire class going to get hit with a "zero tolerance" policy for being generally apathetic to rule breaking? And gee, wouldn't that just stink if you suddenly have to miss a class and now get bounced because of the new draconian policy?

Everything has a consequence. No action doesn't equate to no risk.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

If the person were your friend, would you report them? That's just a gut check question. How important is this to you? Is it a rule you can't abide ANYBODY breaking? Or just people you don't have a vested interest in?

Honor is a two way street. There is Honor to the rules (some of which are important, some not so), and Honor to your classmates. I think if somebody cheats on a test, that's reportable every time. They are stealing something from YOU in that case. But not going to a class?! Good grief - they are just stealing from themselves.

You didn't work this hard to get into this program so that the teachers have a tattle-tale for minor rules infractions - infractions that hold no consequence to you. Save your capital for when/if you observe something WORTH reporting.

~faith,

Timothy.

[LydiaNN]

This isn't a military academy about which we're talking. Very few schools have 'honor codes' per se.

[Works2xs]

No risk? Rofl! If there's a chance of you (the witness) getting caught up in some honor code violation, what risk is there? How about the tuition you've sunk into the program to date - several thousands to ten's of thousands depending on the institution. How about lost wages? If you're in a full time program, you probably had to give up a paying job for a year or more. How many more tens of thousands of dollars are involved there? You'd be willing to put all that on the line for some schmo who was likely sleeping off a hangover? That sort of generosity approaches Biblical proportions.

And what about those two folks involved in the ruse? How presumptious of them to assume that anyone who observed their behavior would be willing to put that sort of investment on the line. I guess if he were cutting class to donate bone marrow to a dying child he could be given a "pass." However, if such were the case, then he'd undoubtedly be given an excused absence. No, IF there were any legit reason for him to be out of class for the day, then there would be no reason to lie. The fact that they were so careless with the trust of those around them speaks volumes about their moral fiber. Tell me what honor is involved in the abuse of their classmate's trust?

As for "not going to class" being a minor issue. You are correct. Had the person simply ditched. No prob. Had the girlfriend said, "He's home sick" even if such were not the case, then nobody in the class would have been the wiser - again, no prob. In those scenarios, nobody outside their circle would be involved in their deceit. The only risk would have been to themselves.

However, when the girlfriend said in front of others what was known to be an obvious lie, she (and by extension, him) were assuming that everybody within earshot was ready, willing, and able to participate in the deception. That, my friend, is a horse of an entirely different color. The second they involved others in their ruse, they "stole" the integrity of every withness they expect to remain silent.

I guess I'm just strange, but I just have no sympathy for people who assume I'll ditch my integrity or risk my professional future for something as trivial as a day off from class.

[Works2xs]

This isn't a military academy about which we're talking. Very few schools have 'honor codes' per se.

This is what my University has to say:

"As participating members of this community, all students have the duty to report to a member of the Honor Committee, within the prescribed time outlined under Procedure for Reporting a Violation, any violations of the Honor Code. This duty is important not only because it enforces the Honor Code, but also because it gives all students the opportunity to express their respect for personal integrity and an honest academic community."

This language has been faily standard for each of the 5 institutions I've attended over the last 25 years (none of which had any military affiliation). I admit that's a verrrrryyyy limited view of the college/university world - BUT, I'd be fairly stunned to find out that such rules were the exception and not the rule.

[LydiaNN]

No risk? Rofl! If there's a chance of you (the witness) getting caught up in some honor code violation, what risk is there? How about the tuition you've sunk into the program to date - several thousands to ten's of thousands depending on the institution. How about lost wages? If you're in a full time program, you probably had to give up a paying job for a year or more. How many more tens of thousands of dollars are involved there? You'd be willing to put all that on the line for some schmo who was likely sleeping off a hangover? That sort of generosity approaches Biblical proportions.

And what about those two folks involved in the ruse? How presumptious of them to assume that anyone who observed their behavior would be willing to put that sort of investment on the line. I guess if he were cutting class to donate bone marrow to a dying child he could be given a "pass." However, if such were the case, then he'd undoubtedly be given an excused absence. No, IF there were any legit reason for him to be out of class for the day, then there would be no reason to lie. The fact that they were so careless with the trust of those around them speaks volumes about their moral fiber. Tell me what honor is involved in the abuse of their classmate's trust?

As for "not going to class" being a minor issue. You are correct. Had the person simply ditched. No prob. Had the girlfriend said, "He's home sick" even if such were not the case, then nobody in the class would have been the wiser - again, no prob. In those scenarios, nobody outside their circle would be involved in their deceit. The only risk would have been to themselves.

However, when the girlfriend said in front of others what was known to be an obvious lie, she (and by extension, him) were assuming that everybody within earshot was ready, willing, and able to participate in the deception. That, my friend, is a horse of an entirely different color. The second they involved others in their ruse, they "stole" the integrity of every withness they expect to remain silent.

I guess I'm just strange, but I just have no sympathy for people who assume I'll ditch my integrity or risk my professional future for something as trivial as a day off from class.

It isn't about having sympathy for anyone. Frankly, I would probably hope that they got caught. I just wouldn't see it as being my responsibility to make sure that happens. I still have no idea of what honor code it is you are speaking of, as I said, it is my understanding that very schools outside of the military academies have them. And if they do, then I would report this behavior (assuming I'd ever enroll in a school with such a policy in the first place, which I wouldn't). In that case, I'd be reporting because by choosing that school, I agreed to take responsibility for monitoring the behavior of others. As I didn't take any such pledge, I don't consider either my honor or my professional future to be at stake.

[jenn_rn_nj]

If the person skipping class wants to deprive himself of the chance to learn, so be it. If his girlfriend wants to enable him, so be it.

Skipping class doesn't hurt anyone but the person skipping (and in this case the person willing to lie for him, possibly). If this were something that would interfere with me or my classmates learning, I'd speak up. Since it's not, I wouldn't let it bother me. It's the professors job to take roll / account for attendance. If it were my job, then I'd be concerned. If something was going on that would harm someone else, I'd be concerned.

If anything, I'd say something to the girlfriend in private just in case she's not really aware that she may be hurting herself by covering for him. But then again, I'm not sure how close you are to her or if you'd feel comfortable doing this. (Maybe she didn't think of the possibility of repercussions against her by professors and/or the school.)

In the end, if he does this often enough it will be discovered and dealt with appropriately by administration. My guess is that the professor knows he wasn't there and is he/she is also playing the waiting game to see if this is a regular occurence.

just my

[LydiaNN]

This is what my University has to say:

"As participating members of this community, all students have the duty to report to a member of the Honor Committee, within the prescribed time outlined under Procedure for Reporting a Violation, any violations of the Honor Code. This duty is important not only because it enforces the Honor Code, but also because it gives all students the opportunity to express their respect for personal integrity and an honest academic community."

This language has been faily standard for each of the 5 institutions I've attended over the last 25 years (none of which had any military affiliation). I admit that's a verrrrryyyy limited view of the college/university world - BUT, I'd be fairly stunned to find out that such rules were the exception and not the rule.

Stunned? My goodness, you seem to be getting a bit carried away with all of this. This is what my university says about it (granted, I've only been to one): Roles and Responsibilities within the College or the Schools

Course instructors are responsible for upholding the University standards of Academic Integrity in regard to work performed both in and outside of class. They have primary responsibility for evaluating evidence of violations and imposing appropriate sanctions. All cases which result in a sanction greater than failure on the paper or exam on which the violation allegedly occurred, must be discussed with the chairperson of the faculty member’s academic department. In cases where the student is not a member of the department offering the course in which the violation occurs, the department chair or Dean of the student’s major department (School) should be notified.

I guess it comes down to honoring what you've agreed to do. In my case, I never agreed and I never would agree to do the instructor's job for them. That doesn't make me spineless or lacking integrity.

[Works2xs]

Stunned? My goodness, you seem to be getting a bit carried away with all of this.

Don't know about carried away. I had always assumed that honor systems were in play at most, if not all, institutions of higher learning. If you were of similiar opinion, wouldn't it be a great surprise to learn you were wrong? *shrug*

Anyways...

Went to a few sites to see if my understanding was out in the weeds regarding academic honor and student's responsibilities. The sites visited all included language regarding academic honesty and student's responsibility to report violations. The schools I checked out were (none of which I attended):

Penn State - contained in "Code of Conduct"

UCLA - covered in "Student Conduct Policies"

UVA - covered in "Honor System"

FSU - detailed in "Academic Honor System"

... I really don't think this sort of expectation of the student body is rare.

By the way, I don't think I implied you were "spineless". If such was the case, my appologies.

The point I was attempting to make was that in the case posted by the OP, the girlfriend forged a signature and then lied to the instructor. This was done (I think) in view of at least one other classmate (the OP), perhaps others. When she told her lie, she was betting that even if someone was aware of the lie, they wouldn't say anything, i.e., she was counting on classmates to be accomplices to her (and the boyfriend's) deception. Putting it simply: they were used. Personally, I get irritated when I'm used in that sort of manner. So it aint about being a "tattle tale". It's about letting people know that I'm not their stooge. Wanna skip class? Knock yourself out; it aint my dime. Want me to cover for you so you can skip class and then lie about it? Unless you've got a very compelling reason - forget it.

[LydiaNN]

Don't know about carried away. I had always assumed that honor systems were in play at most, if not all, institutions of higher learning. If you were of similiar opinion, wouldn't it be a great surprise to learn you were wrong? *shrug*

Anyways...

Went to a few sites to see if my understanding was out in the weeds regarding academic honor and student's responsibilities. The sites visited all included language regarding academic honesty and student's responsibility to report violations. The schools I checked out were (none of which I attended):

Penn State - contained in "Code of Conduct"

UCLA - covered in "Student Conduct Policies"

UVA - covered in "Honor System"

FSU - detailed in "Academic Honor System"

... I really don't think this sort of expectation of the student body is rare.

By the way, I don't think I implied you were "spineless". If such was the case, my appologies.

The point I was attempting to make was that in the case posted by the OP, the girlfriend forged a signature and then lied to the instructor. This was done (I think) in view of at least one other classmate (the OP), perhaps others. When she told her lie, she was betting that even if someone was aware of the lie, they wouldn't say anything, i.e., she was counting on classmates to be accomplices to her (and the boyfriend's) deception. Putting it simply: they were used. Personally, I get irritated when I'm used in that sort of manner. So it aint about being a "tattle tale". It's about letting people know that I'm not their stooge. Wanna skip class? Knock yourself out; it aint my dime. Want me to cover for you so you can skip class and then lie about it? Unless you've got a very compelling reason - forget it.

Funny, I just read Penn State's code of conduct and all I could find is some language about facilitation of academic dishonesty by others. I would interpret that to mean that there would be sanctions for helping someone cheat or plaigarize (I consider plaigarism a form of cheating, but the code calls it out separately, so I am, too). I would not interpet that to mean that I'm responsible for reporting people who engage in 'I'll lie and you swear to it' mentality. As for would it not be a great surprise to me to learn that honor systems are not in play at all universities? No, it wouldn't. A mild surprise, yes, but stunned, not in this lifetime. And I didn't mean to imply that all universities don't have codes of conduct. An Honor Code, capital H, capital C, implies a specific code to me, in which students are meant to turn in fellow students for any infraction of said code. I repeat that I would never enroll in a program that made that expectation of me. I absolutely expect to be held accountable for my own integrity, just not that of others.

[SraKristina]

i dont know why im replying everything has been said before but im bored and i work midnights so i like to pretend to have conversations (im a student, not a nurse, dont worry pts arent unattended while i sit online ) anyways... i wouldnt say anything, like previous posters said, its a teachers job to monitor those things... but is there more to a story.... Was this the first time something like this has happened? if so, let it go, whether or not its fair, if he is a good student he will know the importance of getting to class and if he isnt... well then whether or not he is called out missing class will catch up with him on exams, clinicals, etc.

[oneLoneNurse]

Ditto to the most previous post.

Question: would anyone in a male dominated school think about turning a fellow student in for being absent ? I think not. What about George Ws stint in the reserves ?