I have been reseaching vaccinations lately, out of curiosity...
Before the age of 18 months children are given between 22 and 30 vaccines. By the age of 5 they are given 38. Now, mercury has been found at toxic levels in these shots...even for adults.
So, my question is this: How many of you RN's would delay your childs vaccination schedule? How do you feel about the 22-30 vaccines given to a child before 18 months?
I do not feel it is neccessary at birth or in infancy... I mean, Hep B shots at birth? Polio? DpT, etc. I do not feel that delaying vaccines until 2-3 would increase the risk of the child getting these diseases.
In fact, I read where there is no correlation in third world countries between vaccines and decreased infectious diseases. But that there was correlation between good hygiene and diet and decreased infectious diseases (the dieseases decreased by 95%)
I read that babies at 1.5 years were normally developing and after the vaccines their development (physically, mentally, etc) slowed severely and were diagnosed with Autism (oddly enough Autism and Mercury poisoning have almost exact symptoms...)
Like I said, I have just began researching the correlation between Autism and vaccines...and was wondering how people in the medical community felt. And I do not have kids yet, so its just research that caught my eye lol
I can hear it now: "But would you feel the same if Moocher acquired autism?"
It is curious, isn't it, that people dont ask "But how would you feel if Moocher got diphtheria?"
It strikes me as rather odd that people people are petrified of a remotely possible link between vaccination and autism while they are not worried about the very real and proven link between non-vaccination and infectious disease. It is kinda like the folks who cannot sleep at night because they are worried that global warming might on day inundate the poor in Bangladesh with floods while that dont give a rat's patoot that the poor in Bangladesh die of waterborn illness right now. Perhaps possible problems are easier to hold on to than real problems...
Autism is a really horrid disease. My heart goes out to the posters that report children living with autism. We very much need more research into autism- its causes and possible treatments. And yes, we research the health effects of vaccination.
But I suspect that if we ended all vaccination tomorrow we would not see much of decrease in autism. We would however see a rapid return to the massive suffering caused by childhood disease and death. One only need stroll through your local cemetery and look at the names of the countless number of young children that died in the pre-vaccination era.
It is curious, isn't it, that people dont ask "But how would you feel if Moocher got diphtheria?"
It strikes me as rather odd that people people are petrified of a remotely possible link between vaccination and autism while they are not worried about the very real and proven link between non-vaccination and infectious disease. It is kinda like the folks who cannot sleep at night because they are worried that global warming might on day inundate the poor in Bangladesh with floods while that dont give a rat's patoot that the poor in Bangladesh die of waterborn illness right now. Perhaps possible problems are easier to hold on to than real problems...
Autism is a really horrid disease. My heart goes out to the posters that report children living with autism. We very much need more research into autism- its causes and possible treatments. And yes, we research the health effects of vaccination.
But I suspect that if we ended all vaccination tomorrow we would not see much of decrease in autism. We would however see a rapid return to the massive suffering caused by childhood disease and death. One only need stroll through your local cemetery and look at the names of the countless number of young children that died in the pre-vaccination era.
Forgive me a bit of a distinction? Autism is a spectrum disorder, not a disease. And you're right about eliminating vaccinations NOT eliminating autism: Denmark had a very famous, very respected study that came out several years ago (important because of socialized medicine allowing for very clean and careful records and comparisons). It showed that among non-vaccinated children, the incidence of autism was not only not lower, but to a statistically insignificant margin, higher. Please be careful of what I'm saying; the statistical insignificance of increased autism amongst the NON-vaccinated group did not give a case for NOT vaccinating children at all. For statistical purposes, they were the same when discussing rates of autism dx.
As for all the rest, and the original questions about vaccinations in general: My children were vaccinated appropriately, and the autistic one showed subtle signs of autism BEFORE the Big Bad MMR was even given. Honestly, most parents miss those early signs, and not realize their kids were autistic long before the more obvious symptoms presented themselves.
And I'm with you: I'd rather risk some side effects (NOT talking autism, just general side-effects!) and have a temporarily sick child, than have a permanently dead one.
Forgive me a bit of a distinction? Autism is a spectrum disorder, not a disease.
Yes -thank you for the clarification. It is, in fact, an important distinction - one that carries both clinical and political significance.
And thank you sharing the info about the study done in Denmark. Your remarks highlight the difficulty in explaining risk to a person unfamiliar with statistics and the curious world of "not."
I once heard about as study showing pointing rates of autism among the children of knowledge workers in the high-tech world. I have searched for it with no luck . Are you familiar with this study.
My heart goes out to children with autism disorder.
My heart goes out to children who have had reactions to vaccines.
I have a soft spot for both and know several individuals that fall into each of those categories.
I've researched this issue, I've sought the opinion of health care providers that I trust, I've talked with other moms and dads and I've read more studies than I care to think about.
It isn't that I'm not open to the possibility that vaccines cause autism. It is that I am completely and totally confident that they are NOT related. It's only from my open-minded willingness to consider the idea that I've drawn that conclusion.
And the constant stream of bad science and misinformation only makes a mockery of what parents of children with health challenges go through. Grasping at straws for an answer is normal when your life has been turned upside down. Providing people with false information, I think, is adding insult to injury.
Vaccines have a risk and a benefit - just like everything else we do. For vaccines, the benefit isn't just for the individual. But the risk, unfortunately, is.
What they don't have is a "toxic level of mercury" or a confirmed entry way to autism. When thimerosal was removed from early childhood vaccinations, what did the autism rate do?
It rose.
OOops - there goes the mercury theory. And I'm not trying to belittle anyone's questioning. I do believe that everyone has a right to decide and think for themselves. But misinformation seriously makes my head hurt.
And please, if anyone is considering chelation therapy for an autistic child, know that the Pennsylvania State Board of Medicine and the FDA are investigating the death of at least one otherwise healthy child (August 2005) that occured during IV administration of Na2EDTA. The Institute of Medicine has found no evidence that CaEDTA, dimercaperol (Na2EDTA), or succimer are effective therapies for autism.
OOops - there goes the mercury theory. And I'm not trying to belittle anyone's questioning. I do believe that everyone has a right to decide and think for themselves. But misinformation seriously makes my head hurt.
Makes my head hurt too.
Most (not all) of the anti-vaccine info out there does not strike me as mis-information, rather non-information. Like the "information" that high dose vitamins will stop you from aging and vitamin c prevents colds it is probably well meaning, it just isn't supported by much (if any) scientific evidence. I am not saying their claims aren't true, they are just not supported at this time.
The problem is that taking vitamin c in reasonable amounts probably carries little or no risk. Not getting vaccinated carries a pretty high risk.
One poster wisely observed that the risks of vaccination fall entirely on the vaccinee, but the benefits are accrued by the entire community. This is one of the reasons why they are mandatory in some states.
I don't see the harm in having the MMR, infact I think it is a good vaccine. Maybe it's because there is currently a measles outbreak (a small one so far) in WI. It can be scarey, especially for children.
My middle son (now 9) had a severe and "bizarre" reaction to the MMR vaccine........Scared the living daylights of us, his pediatrician, the neurologist and the allergist.....
Within two hours of the vaccination, this normal toddler could no longer hold his head up and could barely stay awake. After 24 tense hours, he finally returned to normal. We have not had any long term issues with him as yet.
I was advised to not vaccinate him with the MMR vaccination ever again and they would continue with altered vaccination schedule for him in the future.
My oldest son, (now 18) had a violent reaction to the DPT shot - 106 temps with Pediatric ICU time and was also advised to never received the Pertusis part of the vaccine again. He was diagnosed with Autism later in childhood.
We know a family whose 18 month old healthy child received the chicken pox vaccine and died from a "vaccine injury" related to the vaccine. Very rare, but too close for comfort.
I did not vaccinate my kids for the chicken pox - my oldest had the chicken pox when he was 5 and has natural immunity. My two other kids caught it when they were 6 and 4 and have natural immunity as well.
I do believe we give way to many vaccines to kids at the same time these days. A split schedule would be much better suited to developing neurological and immune systems.
As for the autism and vaccine connection - the government recently settled a case for a "vaccine injury" case relating to autism:
With the high incidences of autism these days, a vaccine connection should not be dismissed without very long term, independent studies - it's amazing to think that not that many years ago, cigarette smoking was not in any way connected to "lung trouble."
As a side note, my kids have received all of the other vaccinations that are recommended, just with the timing altered a bit. One child has no problems with any vaccinations at all.......
It is curious, isn't it, that people dont ask "But how would you feel if Moocher got diphtheria?"
I don't think this is fair. I know many people who do not vaccinate or vaccinate selectively; believe me, they take that responsibility very seriously.
When I researched and created my own vaccination schedule for my children, I thought long and hard about how I would feel if my children contracted a disease that they would likely not have gotten had we vaccinated on schedule. When I chose to expose my children to chickenpox instead of get the vaccination, my husband and I were ready to take the responsibility of any consequences of that action; same as we were ready to take the responsibility of any consequences of a reaction or problem with vaccination.
I am not some idiot who is uneducated, does not trust the medical establishment, and has an antiauthority complex (though would my opinion be less valid if I were?). I am an educated woman who is able to do my own research and come to educated conclusions. I am also ready to take responsibility for my actions. I do not think badly of those of you who vaccinated on the recommended schedule; I'm assuming to did what you felt was best, based on your educated opinions, and that you are ready and willing to accept the responsibility of your actions. Please extend the same respect to me and those who have different opinions than those you hold.
No type of vaccination or medication is completely safe. You always have to weigh the risks with the benefits. They did recall a vaccine a few years back because it was causing an intestinal blockage or associated with an increased risk of this (I think).
I would likely delay the hep b vaccinations, probably would withhold the rotavirus vaccinations, and not sure about the chicken pox vaccination. Giardisil--no way at least not until safety has been established.
No type of vaccination or medication is completely safe. You always have to weigh the risks with the benefits. They did recall a vaccine a few years back because it was causing an intestinal blockage or associated with an increased risk of this (I think).
I would likely delay the hep b vaccinations, probably would withhold the rotavirus vaccinations, and not sure about the chicken pox vaccination. Giardisil--no way at least not until safety has been established.
It was rotavirus, which was leading to increased cases of intussiception. There have still be cases associated with the reformulated pill, but not nearly the numbers they were seeing previously.
Forgive me a bit of a distinction? Autism is a spectrum disorder, not a disease. And you're right about eliminating vaccinations NOT eliminating autism: Denmark had a very famous, very respected study that came out several years ago (important because of socialized medicine allowing for very clean and careful records and comparisons). It showed that among non-vaccinated children, the incidence of autism was not only not lower, but to a statistically insignificant margin, higher. Please be careful of what I'm saying; the statistical insignificance of increased autism amongst the NON-vaccinated group did not give a case for NOT vaccinating children at all. For statistical purposes, they were the same when discussing rates of autism dx.
As for all the rest, and the original questions about vaccinations in general: My children were vaccinated appropriately, and the autistic one showed subtle signs of autism BEFORE the Big Bad MMR was even given. Honestly, most parents miss those early signs, and not realize their kids were autistic long before the more obvious symptoms presented themselves.
And I'm with you: I'd rather risk some side effects (NOT talking autism, just general side-effects!) and have a temporarily sick child, than have a permanently dead one.
Wondering about the Danish study - did they control for autistic relatives of the children? Some parents with autistic children or siblings may have withheld vaccines because of a perceived risk.
My oldest is on the autistic spectrum, so I delayed and spread out the vaccinations for the next three. I don't attribute my son's disorder to vaccines but his symptoms started when I was on IV antibiotics for mastitis. The doctors said I could keep nursing and he came down with inconsolable colic, stool changes and a confused look to him. Increased gut permeability has been linked to autism and there is some theorizing that the MMR shots can cause that in susceptible children.
I am not some idiot who is uneducated, does not trust the medical establishment, and has an antiauthority complex (though would my opinion be less valid if I were?). I am an educated woman who is able to do my own research and come to educated conclusions. I am also ready to take responsibility for my actions.
I most certainly did not mean to offend you and I am sorry that you took offense.
If you carefully read my ever increasing number of posts on this controversial subject I think on balance. you will find them to be respectful of non-vaccinators. I have never stated that parents who chose not to vaccinate or uneducated, anti-authoritarian, etc. I just think they are wrong.
I am glad that you take responsibility for your actions. I would, however, suggest that parents who do not vaccinate place not only their own children at risk they also place the community at risk.
Immunity tends to wane with time. Thus many adults are not longer immune to the disease they were vaccinated against as children. Will parents that don't vaccinate take responsibility for the fetus of the mother that contracts measles from their un-vaccinated child? What would 'taking responsibility' for this look like?
Of course some diseases pose a greater problem to the community than others. It is my opinion that only diseases posing a significant threat to the community warrant compulsory vaccination - and for those diseases there should be no opt provision for moral, religious, or any other objection. ie the only way not to be vaccinated is to leave the country.
Hep B is not transmitted through the community and IMHO should not be mandatory for school children. I strongly feel the same about HPV and I wrote a paper (currently being prepared for publication) arguing that HPV vaccination should not be mandatory for school children (my main concern, for those interested, is that mandatory HPV is a potentially risky intrusion by the state into the private sphere of the body and it poses a novel expansion of bio-power by the state).
czyja, MSN, RN
469 Posts
It is curious, isn't it, that people dont ask "But how would you feel if Moocher got diphtheria?"
It strikes me as rather odd that people people are petrified of a remotely possible link between vaccination and autism while they are not worried about the very real and proven link between non-vaccination and infectious disease. It is kinda like the folks who cannot sleep at night because they are worried that global warming might on day inundate the poor in Bangladesh with floods while that dont give a rat's patoot that the poor in Bangladesh die of waterborn illness right now. Perhaps possible problems are easier to hold on to than real problems...
Autism is a really horrid disease. My heart goes out to the posters that report children living with autism. We very much need more research into autism- its causes and possible treatments. And yes, we research the health effects of vaccination.
But I suspect that if we ended all vaccination tomorrow we would not see much of decrease in autism. We would however see a rapid return to the massive suffering caused by childhood disease and death. One only need stroll through your local cemetery and look at the names of the countless number of young children that died in the pre-vaccination era.