It is not good for the US to be inundated with cheap nsg labor. When there is a nsg surplus do hospitals hire more nurses to achieve better pt outcomes. NO!!!!!! they continue w/dangerous staffing and proceed to line the hospital's pockets even more!!!!!! Thus an influx of any cheap nsg labor force does not improve pt care.
Since you are in California your hospital should be staffing according to the ratios as the "floor" and increasing staff according to acuity. Acuity must be determined by the RN who has assessed to patient AND charted that assessment.
If they are not and you want to report it to the CNA, send me a PM or e- mail I will forward it and no one will know it was you.
It is now a crime to knowingly staff unsafely. I am not certain of the fine, but it is a significant amount of money.
Of course you may be a fortunate nurse working where the staffing IS safe there if you do it right the first time you are not busy.
Well, as long as there is shortage of nurses in the USA, foreign nurses will still be in demand and that's a fact. As for 3 years contract, most foreign nurses will accept that because that is the only way they can achieve their dreams in going to the States to have a better life. Just like your forefathers did decades ago when they immigrate to the US. Check your history, the great american railway that was built to connect California and the east coast was built by Chinese coolies and Italians because of cheap labor. The immigrants are willing to do the dirty jobs and that's another fact. NOW it is time for foreign nurses to do the job of taking care the sick and needy.
I believe this is the most interesting topic I ever encountered at this site. And I cite Roxanne for her well researched articles and Dave and other for theirs approval on Filipino nurses. Yes, I have read those articles that Roxanne posted here and its true but anybody can disagree it even us, Filipinos.
I am a nurse myself but the last time I gave medications to patients was 10 years ago. You see, When I graduated in 1991, the USA has started closing its doors to Filipino nurses and the Middle East taking advantage of the situation started offering low salaries to nurses that caused the drop of nursing students here.
In earning my BSN, I spent four years in college which included three years in the hospital as a student nurse. You can just imagine the preparation we Filipinos are doing to just earn the degree. After graduation, I passed the Nursing Board exams on that same year. There were 30,000 nurses who took the exam that year and only 20,000 made it. I voluntered( without pay ) in a military hospital for six months to gain experience needed to get a job. Yes, we do volunter just to get the necessary experience needed for jobs locally and abroad. I took and passed my CGFNS in 1992 but wasn't able to get to the States. I worked again as a volunter nurse in a local hospital but was not hired because there were no hiring. No nurses are going abroad and the turnover has settled to ZERO. So, I decided to work as a private duty nurse, which were very lucrative at that time, handling patients that needed special attention on an on-call basis until 1994. The job was not permanent with no benefits. With no real opportunities to work as a nurse, I applied for a job in the pharmacuetical market as a medical sales representative. That time , pharmaceutical companies started hiring nurses because they have medical backgrounds, can relate well to medical products and are easy to train than other college graduates.
At present, all the hospitals here in my city are run by young nurses. Only few old nurses are left behind. Most of them in the management positions. Even my teachers in college have already left for London and the States. They were replaced by young nurses some of whom were my classmates. Surely there is braindrain here but not of astronomical proportion. Our books in nursing are all American. When we do demonstrations in class on nursing procedures, we used English as the medium and not our national language which is Tagalog. Our Tagalog doesn't have the equivalent for words like prn, stat, od, bid and other medical terms. If you asked why Filipinos talk Tagalog in the workplace specially in US hospitals is because the Philippines has 83 languages and Tagalog is the only local language which most of us understand. I speak Chavacano which is a mixture of Spanish and local dialect, aside from that I also speak Bisayan the language of my mother. When I speak to my boss in the office I use Tagalog. When I do product presentations to doctors or sales report to my bosses, I speak to them in English.
The Only Big issue here in the Philippines is economy. If the Philippines is like the USA surely there will be no more migration of nurses. As long our economy is not improving you can expect more of us going there. And as long as your government will not "improved" your nurses' salaries, shortages of nurses will always be the problem. And some of us don't quite understand why American nurses are complaining about salaries when in fact on a 20dollar an hour a Filipino nurse can have a decent home, a car and some savings. My best friend started on a 12dollar an hour 8 years ago in Michigan and now on a on 22dollar an hour. Maybe it has to do with our different backgrounds. Our culture also plays emphasize on taking take of our elders that's why in the PHilippines there are no such thing as nursing homes. With the aging population in the USA increasing, America needs more of us whether we are Americans, Filipinos or Indian nurses because that is our job, our profession and we dedicate our lives to helping those who need help, care and compassion.
I hope this will help all of you to understand us, Filipino nurses.
Well i don't think that you understand why nursing salaries are not higher. $20/hr is a terrible salary in many parts of the country and in other is considered good. It all depends on what is the cost of living in that area. Also look at the pay of other similar 4 yr college educated salaries who take as much responsibility and work the kind of hours/days/weekends/holidays, etc.
Don't forget that most RNs do not staff nursing homes. It is staffed primarily by LPNs and aides.
And again the big problem is that this problem has been perpetuated by hospitals for the last 30 years, simply to keep the salaries as low as they will go and increase their profits, NOT give the best in nursing care.
Nurses in my opinion should not actually work for hospitals as the hospitals have compromised our ethics. We should probably work for an organization that sends staff, possibly federal or state. Maybe that would eliminate a whole area of "nursing management" at least in every hospital
Well i don't think that you understand why nursing salaries are not higher. $20/hr is a terrible salary in many parts of the country and in other is considered good. It all depends on what is the cost of living in that area. Also look at the pay of other similar 4 yr college educated salaries who take as much responsibility and work the kind of hours/days/weekends/holidays, etc.
Don't forget that most RNs do not staff nursing homes. It is staffed primarily by LPNs and aides.
And again the big problem is that this problem has been perpetuated by hospitals for the last 30 years, simply to keep the salaries as low as they will go and increase their profits, NOT give the best in nursing care.
Nurses in my opinion should not actually work for hospitals as the hospitals have compromised our ethics. We should probably work for an organization that sends staff, possibly federal or state. Maybe that would eliminate a whole area of "nursing management" at least in every hospital
Well, I do understand why nurses' salaries are not much higher compare to the other professions in the States.
First, I live in the Philippines and have never been to the United States. My opinions were based from friends, classmates who are working there . Also, from other sources like the media, books and the internet.
What I gather from these discussions of opinions here are that salaries are not high which lead to American nurse leaving the profession. This causes a shortage of nurses and the employers/hospitals with a narrowed or profit minded view of the situation started hiring foreign nurses to fill in the gaps.
Certainly, these foreign nurses who are facing financial difficulties at home finally see a window of opportunity wherein their lives will improve for the better. So they apply in droves which your hospitals welcome them with open arms.
These foreign nurses have tasted poverty that they are willing to settle for rates of 20 to 25 dollars an hour, willing to do overtime work and odd shifts because they know that their LIVES WILL IMPROVE FOR THE BETTER.
You can not fault these foreign nurses whether they are Filipinos or Chinese or Indonesians for coming to the States thereby leaving no incentives for employers/hospitals to improve nurses' salaries and working conditions.
Have any American nurses have experience working with 30 patients under his/her responsibilty. I don't think so. As a Philippine Registered Nurse, I have experienced that. I tell you it is an experience you won't forget. I remember giving oral meds for 30 minutes and IV meds for an hour for a noontime schedule of medications. How about carrying out doctors' orders and nursing charting. Imagine handling 10 patients, to me that is heaven!
The real problem lies with the kind of healthcare system wherein hospitals try to earn more without considering the patients well being and the nurses conditions. And when nurses fight back by leaving their profession, the only thing the hospitals can do is to hire foreign nurses.
I think to address this problem is for American nurses to write their political leaders and pressure them to correct the system. To increase nurses' salaries and improve working conditions. I doubt some of them will responce because come election time, they need those financial contributions from the hospital owners. I hope I am right on this being an neophyte in American politics.
In the meantime, foreign nurses including Filipinos, known for handling large number of patients, will keep on applying for jobs in US hospitals.
As for me, if a hospital is interested in me offering 22dlrs an hour with a three years contract. And I see this is one way for me to get out of poverty. I would immediately grasp it. After completing the contract, thats the time I look for other options.
My classmate who works as an OR nurse in Texas decided she and the other nurses need a raise. They asked the hospital and was denied. They did what they think was right. They didn't report for work and after two days the hospital call them and said their raise was approved. Remember, hospitals need patients in order to make money. Without nurses, they will not have patients therefore they don't make money. So they need nurses much as nurses need higher salaries and good working conditions.
Ok, after reading this post I think I need to say somehting.
Barbpick mentiond that male Filipino nurses are what? less assestive?
I DONT THINK SO! I manned a big CVICU and I put everyone where they are suppposed to be including all the doctors. I make known what is need to be heard. And I make sure something is done.
And surprise, who is the less assertive ones? Hmmm, I wonder...
MABUHAY! I am a male nurse , too! I have a classmate in Texas, A cardiac nurse. Surname is Tubog, know him? Longshot guessing.
I do have to disagree with you, and can send you information on it if you wish. I am in fact, writing an article on the subject of "nurse poaching" right now.
The Philippine economy depends heavily on exporting labor overseas, all kinds of labor--from highly skilled to low skilled. The money that they send up really keeps the economy there alive. In the case of nurses, they do train a lot of nurses. However, the nation is losing its experienced nurses. It is a major problem, and one of great concern. It is a brain drain. In fact, another problem is that many doctors are training as nurses, and then also leaving the country to work overseas.
There are still enough "warm bodies" to work in the Philippines. But after one or two years experience, 70% or more of the nurses leave the country. I don't know what your relatives have said, I can't debate with them. However, the situation is devastating enough that health officials, nursing school deans, universities and hospitals are all very concerned.
And the move to India, to take their nurses, came about in part because many recruiters believe that the Philippines is starting to "run dry" of experienced nurses.
The US isn't the only nation recruiting. Phillipine nurses are being recruited to the UK, to Canada, to various nations in Europe, to the Persian Gulf...
:balloons: Foreign nurses are good nurses, their standards are higher in their country, there are no associate degree registered nurses or practical nurses. Their clinical is far more intense. But there is a global shortage of nurses. Plus the Philipines isn't paying any big bucks for nursing. I don't blame them I'd leave too.
If they would pay the nurses more in the U.S. instead of giving the money to agency nurses, travel nurses, and importing nurses from other countries, there probably would not be a problem. Just give us $75,000 a year and be done with it. Throw in insurance too, we deserve it. Do you think there would be a shortage then?
I believe this is the most interesting topic I ever encountered at this site. And I cite Roxanne for her well researched articles and Dave and other for theirs approval on Filipino nurses. Yes, I have read those articles that Roxanne posted here and its true but anybody can disagree it even us, Filipinos.
I am a nurse myself but the last time I gave medications to patients was 10 years ago. You see, When I graduated in 1991, the USA has started closing its doors to Filipino nurses and the Middle East taking advantage of the situation started offering low salaries to nurses that caused the drop of nursing students here.
In earning my BSN, I spent four years in college which included three years in the hospital as a student nurse. You can just imagine the preparation we Filipinos are doing to just earn the degree. After graduation, I passed the Nursing Board exams on that same year. There were 30,000 nurses who took the exam that year and only 20,000 made it. I voluntered( without pay ) in a military hospital for six months to gain experience needed to get a job. Yes, we do volunter just to get the necessary experience needed for jobs locally and abroad. I took and passed my CGFNS in 1992 but wasn't able to get to the States. I worked again as a volunter nurse in a local hospital but was not hired because there were no hiring. No nurses are going abroad and the turnover has settled to ZERO. So, I decided to work as a private duty nurse, which were very lucrative at that time, handling patients that needed special attention on an on-call basis until 1994. The job was not permanent with no benefits. With no real opportunities to work as a nurse, I applied for a job in the pharmacuetical market as a medical sales representative. That time , pharmaceutical companies started hiring nurses because they have medical backgrounds, can relate well to medical products and are easy to train than other college graduates.
At present, all the hospitals here in my city are run by young nurses. Only few old nurses are left behind. Most of them in the management positions. Even my teachers in college have already left for London and the States. They were replaced by young nurses some of whom were my classmates. Surely there is braindrain here but not of astronomical proportion. Our books in nursing are all American. When we do demonstrations in class on nursing procedures, we used English as the medium and not our national language which is Tagalog. Our Tagalog doesn't have the equivalent for words like prn, stat, od, bid and other medical terms. If you asked why Filipinos talk Tagalog in the workplace specially in US hospitals is because the Philippines has 83 languages and Tagalog is the only local language which most of us understand. I speak Chavacano which is a mixture of Spanish and local dialect, aside from that I also speak Bisayan the language of my mother. When I speak to my boss in the office I use Tagalog. When I do product presentations to doctors or sales report to my bosses, I speak to them in English.
The Only Big issue here in the Philippines is economy. If the Philippines is like the USA surely there will be no more migration of nurses. As long our economy is not improving you can expect more of us going there. And as long as your government will not "improved" your nurses' salaries, shortages of nurses will always be the problem. And some of us don't quite understand why American nurses are complaining about salaries when in fact on a 20dollar an hour a Filipino nurse can have a decent home, a car and some savings. My best friend started on a 12dollar an hour 8 years ago in Michigan and now on a on 22dollar an hour. Maybe it has to do with our different backgrounds. Our culture also plays emphasize on taking take of our elders that's why in the PHilippines there are no such thing as nursing homes. With the aging population in the USA increasing, America needs more of us whether we are Americans, Filipinos or Indian nurses because that is our job, our profession and we dedicate our lives to helping those who need help, care and compassion.
I hope this will help all of you to understand us, Filipino nurses.
:balloons: Thank you, thank you, thank you
I have never understood Filipino nurses. But now I do. They are very private people. The average RN student gets two days a week a semester (two and a half months) of clinical. So that does not add up to much. That explains the exceptional clinical skills, lots and lots of practice. The U.S.' culture is not family orientated, it is the "me" society. Thanks for sharing so much.
Well, I do understand why nurses' salaries are not much higher compare to the other professions in the States.
First, I live in the Philippines and have never been to the United States. My opinions were based from friends, classmates who are working there . Also, from other sources like the media, books and the internet.
What I gather from these discussions of opinions here are that salaries are not high which lead to American nurse leaving the profession. This causes a shortage of nurses and the employers/hospitals with a narrowed or profit minded view of the situation started hiring foreign nurses to fill in the gaps.
Certainly, these foreign nurses who are facing financial difficulties at home finally see a window of opportunity wherein their lives will improve for the better. So they apply in droves which your hospitals welcome them with open arms.
These foreign nurses have tasted poverty that they are willing to settle for rates of 20 to 25 dollars an hour, willing to do overtime work and odd shifts because they know that their LIVES WILL IMPROVE FOR THE BETTER.
You can not fault these foreign nurses whether they are Filipinos or Chinese or Indonesians for coming to the States thereby leaving no incentives for employers/hospitals to improve nurses' salaries and working conditions.
Have any American nurses have experience working with 30 patients under his/her responsibilty. I don't think so. As a Philippine Registered Nurse, I have experienced that. I tell you it is an experience you won't forget. I remember giving oral meds for 30 minutes and IV meds for an hour for a noontime schedule of medications. How about carrying out doctors' orders and nursing charting. Imagine handling 10 patients, to me that is heaven!
The real problem lies with the kind of healthcare system wherein hospitals try to earn more without considering the patients well being and the nurses conditions. And when nurses fight back by leaving their profession, the only thing the hospitals can do is to hire foreign nurses.
I think to address this problem is for American nurses to write their political leaders and pressure them to correct the system. To increase nurses' salaries and improve working conditions. I doubt some of them will responce because come election time, they need those financial contributions from the hospital owners. I hope I am right on this being an neophyte in American politics.
In the meantime, foreign nurses including Filipinos, known for handling large number of patients, will keep on applying for jobs in US hospitals.
As for me, if a hospital is interested in me offering 22dlrs an hour with a three years contract. And I see this is one way for me to get out of poverty. I would immediately grasp it. After completing the contract, thats the time I look for other options.
My classmate who works as an OR nurse in Texas decided she and the other nurses need a raise. They asked the hospital and was denied. They did what they think was right. They didn't report for work and after two days the hospital call them and said their raise was approved. Remember, hospitals need patients in order to make money. Without nurses, they will not have patients therefore they don't make money. So they need nurses much as nurses need higher salaries and good working conditions.
AMEN.
:balloons: Hi,
I wanted to comment on your nurse-patient ratio. I am an LPN and I am in a registered nursing program, this May is graduation. But for the past ten years I have working in nursing homes, and assistive living facilities. In the nursing homes I have had 30-60 patients assigned to me including supervising CNA's. At the assistive living facilities the ratio was 40 patients and I had 3-5 nursing assistants to supervise as well. All nurses work far and beyond. During my clinical rotation I had the opportunity to spend a day in Intensive Care, there the ratio was 2-4 to one nurse.
It does not sound like a bad ratio, but the amount of nursing that is given to the small number equals the load of 30 patients. So I say to you, nurses every where work hard, it is just in a different way. We should use this as an opportunity to learn more about one another. I know that I have. Good luck to you.
I wanted to comment on your nurse-patient ratio. I am an LPN and I am in a registered nursing program, this May is graduation. But for the past ten years I have working in nursing homes, and assistive living facilities. In the nursing homes I have had 30-60 patients assigned to me including supervising CNA's. At the assistive living facilities the ratio was 40 patients and I had 3-5 nursing assistants to supervise as well. All nurses work far and beyond. During my clinical rotation I had the opportunity to spend a day in Intensive Care, there the ratio was 2-4 to one nurse.
It does not sound like a bad ratio, but the amount of nursing that is given to the small number equals the load of 30 patients. So I say to you, nurses every where work hard, it is just in a different way. We should use this as an opportunity to learn more about one another. I know that I have. Good luck to you.
Hi!
When I mentioned about the 1:30 nurse to patient ratio. This is the reality Filipino nurses are facing in government or public hospitals. In hospitals run by private corporations, the ration would be 1:10-15. I don't have any idea regarding nursing homes as you mentioned in your post because we don't have any. As for our equivalent to LPN and CNA, our nursing programs are geared toward a BSN degree. What we have here who will be our assistants or nursing aides in the unit are registered midwives. they do most of the "dirty works" like giving baths, changing clothes, etc. We also have orderlies who would assist the midwives. For nurses, well, you know already the job, medications, carrying out orders, etc.
Honestly, I don't have any idea about nurse:patient ratios in nursing homes. And it is good for you to point it out to me. As for ratio of 1:30 in the hospitals, then it is common here but not in your country.
Also, good luck to you finishing the registered nurse program this May.
I have never understood Filipino nurses. But now I do. They are very private people. The average RN student gets two days a week a semester (two and a half months) of clinical. So that does not add up to much. That explains the exceptional clinical skills, lots and lots of practice. The U.S.' culture is not family orientated, it is the "me" society. Thanks for sharing so much.
Geeg
401 Posts
It is not good for the US to be inundated with cheap nsg labor. When there is a nsg surplus do hospitals hire more nurses to achieve better pt outcomes. NO!!!!!! they continue w/dangerous staffing and proceed to line the hospital's pockets even more!!!!!! Thus an influx of any cheap nsg labor force does not improve pt care.