What are you learning in nursing school?

Bicster · May 17, 2009

i forgot what this thread was even about....

ZanatuBelmont · May 17, 2009

Yes, but I wasn't there to deal with whatever would manifest after pushing the drug so I hereby declare this point moot.

The person who administered the drug is responsible for the reactions, even if the effects were not immediate.

ArkansasFan · May 17, 2009

Well, you're not going to change my mind, lol. Besides it was at least eight years ago. I'm not as concerned about it as any of you appear to be on here.

The original question addressed what nurse students are taught and what their capabilities are upon graduation / licensing.

cjcsoon2bnp, MSN, RN, NP · May 17, 2009

Well, you're not going to change my mind, lol. Besides it was at least eight years ago. I'm not as concerned about it as any of you appear to be on here.
The original question addressed what nurse students are taught and what their capabilities are upon graduation / licensing.

I think that the reason why Zantu and I were concerned about what you said is that it goes to the core issue of responsibility of medication administration. If any person (paramedic, nurse, physician, student etc.) are administering a medication to a patient, even if its "just for practice" you are responsible for knowing what you are administering and its effects on the patient you are administering it too. The reason why we are concerned about it is because even after eight years you seem to be indifferent to the issue and that is troubling.

!Chris :specs:

ArkansasFan · May 18, 2009

I think that the reason why Zantu and I were concerned about what you said is that it goes to the core issue of responsibility of medication administration. If any person (paramedic, nurse, physician, student etc.) are administering a medication to a patient, even if its "just for practice" you are responsible for knowing what you are administering and its effects on the patient you are administering it too. The reason why we are concerned about it is because even after eight years you seem to be indifferent to the issue and that is troubling.
!Chris

Yeah, I pretty much am totally indifferent. I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying when you are the clinician, but if you're the guy learning to stick people, you do it, and then you move on to the next project to never see the person you stuck then I'm fine with having not known whatever I was doing eight years ago. I still think it's a comical example. What happened to it being a moot point? Drop it and move on, lol.

jjjoy, LPN · May 18, 2009

Yeah, I pretty much am totally indifferent. I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying when you are the clinician, but if you're the guy learning to stick people, you do it, and then you move on to the next project to never see the person you stuck then I'm fine with having not known whatever I was doing eight years ago. I still think it's a comical example. What happened to it being a moot point? Drop it and move on, lol.

This type of response moves to me reiterate a previous comment..." the attitude that comes across here would be a real hindrance in your pursuit for more professional responsibility." Many training programs would outright fail you if you adminstered a medication without knowing or caring what it was. You may disagree with a such a policy, and may even have good reason, but you'd do well to acknowledge that such policies exist and agree to follow them despite your disagreement; or if you consciously choose to break policy, then be willing to accept any disciplinary consequence or potential negative outcome. It reflects poorly upon you, though, to say that you don't care that you may have blatantly gone against policy in the past and going so far as to call it "comical" that people here have made an issue over it.

Who would be liable if the nurse had pulled up the wrong drug, you administered it, and the patient had a bad outcome? You might think it would be the nurse's fault and problem, and not yours, but I don't know if our legal system would agree. Are you willing to take that risk? I can see that we have to draw a line somewhere. If a nurse administers a drug contaminated by the manufacturer, the nurse shouldn't be held responsible for ensuring that the drug was pure. And in times of crisis, certain safety measures may be put aside in a tradeoff for speed. But day-to-day, a medical professional has to consider the risks of their profession and clinical actions. Some would argue that it's gone too far and fear of lawsuits constricts good practice. That may be the case, but it's the environment that we're stuck with for now. So you can't just blow off safety concerns and policies just because you don't like them or think they are pointless. Well, you can but you'll probably end up failed or fired sooner or later, whether it's medicine or nursing or any other medical profession.

ArkansasFan · May 19, 2009

This type of response moves to me reiterate a previous comment..." the attitude that comes across here would be a real hindrance in your pursuit for more professional responsibility." Many training programs would outright fail you if you adminstered a medication without knowing or caring what it was. You may disagree with a such a policy, and may even have good reason, but you'd do well to acknowledge that such policies exist and agree to follow them despite your disagreement; or if you consciously choose to break policy, then be willing to accept any disciplinary consequence or potential negative outcome. It reflects poorly upon you, though, to say that you don't care that you may have blatantly gone against policy in the past and going so far as to call it "comical" that people here have made an issue over it.
Who would be liable if the nurse had pulled up the wrong drug, you administered it, and the patient had a bad outcome? You might think it would be the nurse's fault and problem, and not yours, but I don't know if our legal system would agree. Are you willing to take that risk? I can see that we have to draw a line somewhere. If a nurse administers a drug contaminated by the manufacturer, the nurse shouldn't be held responsible for ensuring that the drug was pure. And in times of crisis, certain safety measures may be put aside in a tradeoff for speed. But day-to-day, a medical professional has to consider the risks of their profession and clinical actions. Some would argue that it's gone too far and fear of lawsuits constricts good practice. That may be the case, but it's the environment that we're stuck with for now. So you can't just blow off safety concerns and policies just because you don't like them or think they are pointless. Well, you can but you'll probably end up failed or fired sooner or later, whether it's medicine or nursing or any other medical profession.

Who knows if there was a policy? I didn't work for that organization. I was given the opportunity to do something at the direction of another higher trained person so I did it and I'm sure I performed the procedure correctly. If I waited around to only utilize drugs in the paramedic's scope of practice then I would've never gotten checked off on certain skills because there weren't really that many drugs that one would use in an everyday setting. I didn't ask to do it. I just overheard the conversation involved and related it here. I was given a filled syringe, shown a butt cheek, and I injected it with an RN (one of you) telling me to. The rest I can't recall because as I say it was eight years ago and really thinking you're making a big deal out of nothing. I equate this to starting an IV in outpatient surgery - our designated IV practicing center - to have who knows who infuse who knows what into it later. This does give me something to come back and read periodically, however, so I can see how the last person responded to it. :typing

Pookababy · May 20, 2009

If you were to attend my nursing school, you would NEVER make it with the attitude you have projected here on the message boards.

I just graduated from the 2nd largest nursing school in the country, which just so happens to be a 2 year Co-op program in NJ, the ONLY 2 year program, and the first nursing school in NJ to attain the NLN's prestigious "Nursing School Excellence Award" 2009-2011.

For the record: in my program, we learn extensive "hands-on" skills, including assessment, as well as medication administration, EKG & lab interpretation, AND pharmacotherapy - all along with theory and pathophysiology.

I have no doubt that I will pass my boards, first shot, without even having to study or go over NCLEX review questions.

My program teaches you how to understand what you see, hear, and feel; and then how to work with it.

To reiterate what others have said: nurses are NOT doctors, and even APN's typically work under the direction of a physician. If you are looking to diagnose and treat disease, then nursing is not for you. Find a PA program or pursue an MD, but you do not seem to agree with the core principles of the nursing profession, so save yourself a ton of money and frustration and keep searching for your passion.

Good luck

nikki.p · May 20, 2009

I am in going into my third semester of LPN school. I have learned everything from basic functions of the body to diseases and the disease process. I have also learned a ton of microbiology which really does help. I took pharm. and learned a lot about different meds. their interactions and also adverse effects of the meds. Medical term. has taught me to pick apart huge words and recognize that I really do know what they are if I just take the time to figure it out. I know that everyone hates careplans, but I find that they are actually very usefull for learning. I learned a ton of things from my patient. How to recognize symptoms, how to interpret the symptoms and to recognize the need for further examination from a physician. As far as culture and sensitivity (C&S) it really is important because the US has such a diverse group of people living here. I know that you can't memorize all of the different cultures and what they want or need, but it is good to be aware. Learning communication skills is also important, you are only fooling yourself if you think it's not. So far I have learned a lot in nursing school.

If you(the original post writer) are thinking about it, suck it up and soak it all in.

ArkansasFan · May 21, 2009

If you were to attend my nursing school, you would NEVER make it with the attitude you have projected here on the message boards.
I just graduated from the 2nd largest nursing school in the country, which just so happens to be a 2 year Co-op program in NJ, the ONLY 2 year program, and the first nursing school in NJ to attain the NLN's prestigious "Nursing School Excellence Award" 2009-2011.
For the record: in my program, we learn extensive "hands-on" skills, including assessment, as well as medication administration, EKG & lab interpretation, AND pharmacotherapy - all along with theory and pathophysiology.
I have no doubt that I will pass my boards, first shot, without even having to study or go over NCLEX review questions.
My program teaches you how to understand what you see, hear, and feel; and then how to work with it.
To reiterate what others have said: nurses are NOT doctors, and even APN's typically work under the direction of a physician. If you are looking to diagnose and treat disease, then nursing is not for you. Find a PA program or pursue an MD, but you do not seem to agree with the core principles of the nursing profession, so save yourself a ton of money and frustration and keep searching for your passion.
Good luck

Yes, thank you. This message board underscores that nursing is definitely not for me.

cjcsoon2bnp, MSN, RN, NP · May 22, 2009

Yes, thank you. This message board underscores that nursing is definitely not for me.

Please realize no one intended to gang up on you and I'm sorry if you felt we did. To move on to a new topic that fits with this post is that you may want to look into becoming a PA (Physicians Assistant) its two years of school if you have a bachelors degree already and I think that its more up your alley. Its similar to a NP (Nurse Practitioner) role but does not follow the nursing process because it follows the physicians process, its much less of the "touchy feely" aspects of nursing that you dislike. You should look into it, its a lot more of the independence your looking for and a larger focus on the disease process.

!Chris :specs:

salad725 · May 22, 2009

I am going into my last year of my RN program, with the intention of obtaining my BSN and finally my masters. I completely understand the issue that you present, and have felt the same at times throughout my education. I have always wanted to know more about why I was doing certain procedures and found myself searching my knowledge base in an attempt to understand the symptoms that led to the diagnoses. Often during assessment I would be focused on the patho in an attempt to diagnose my clients illness. I have also felt that we are given 2 tons of nursing books, 2 minutes of lecture, 30 minutes of lab time and they throw us into a situation we all feel inept to handle.

I have begun to realize the essence of what we are learning in nursing school, the more challenging aspect of nursing is not the procedures that we all desire to master; like inserting an IV or urinary catheter or even scrubbing in on open heart surgery. All of these are mastered when we are actually out there practicing as nurses. Yes, we get the basics and we build on that with our experiences, but the true essence of nursing care is all of the things that are described as over emphasized and seemingly useless, by many a nursing student. Meaning, we are learning how to care for people. Seeing through the disease, looking past the symptoms that we want to put neatly together and turn into a diagnosis. Looking at every aspect of this client; the psychosocial, the physical, the spiritual, the whole person, and truly care for the wholeness of them. We are not the doctor, though many of us may be some day, we are the nurses. They diagnose-we do not, they perform surgery-we do not, they prescribe medication-we do not. We see what the doctors sometimes miss, we say what the doctors often over look, we look the person in the face and let them know that no matter what they are battling, we will be there to hold their hand, and be their voice, and make sure that they are not alone. All of the knowledge that we are taking in, the patho, the procedures, the lab values, the pharmacology, the psych, the laws; these are our tools to be able to protect and care for all of our clients.

As I think of each patient that I have cared for, none have been the same, not ever. There is no way that we can be taught every possible interpretation of every test, or lab value or EKG for every illness experienced by every person. I feel, and this is all just my viewpoint, right or wrong, that we are given the basic tools to be able to build on. And though it feels like we are given a crash course in a field that is so important, we have to be able to take what, seemingly, little we are given and use those books, that lab time, those clinicals, those lectures and our instructors knowledge and add to it, many hours of self-study, practice and eventually our own experiences to develop into the nurse we know in our hearts we can become.

I have been fortunate to have been taught by some wonderful nurses. Each very different in their approach, expectations, knowledge and beliefs, this has been the most beneficial in my education, because I am so aware that there is rarley one right answer. This is why critical thinking is an essential skill to develop from the start. As for the lab values we can memorize, or the EKG's we can study, or the procedures we will become proficient at, these are the more easily learned aspects of nursing. And though I seem to talk too much, I have learned so much by listening to people. In your, not so spare time, sit in a mental health facility and talk to the clients, or a cancer care center and hold someones hand, or even a room on a med-surg unit and hear what that person needs. I volunteered at a free clinic and it brought to my awareness true medical care. No money, no high tech equipment, just the doctor, the nurse and the patient. Talk about really taking care of people. I am not trying to under-emphasize the importance of the physical hands on part of nursing care, but we all seem to loose focus of the person and instead focus on what task we need to do to this client.

One last thought, a doctor once said to me that he felt like he rushed through medical school with his nose in his books, got great grades, and never really learned how to be a doctor until he did his internship.

Take your education into your own hands, use every resourse offered to you and then go find more.:typing