What do I do? (long)

Nurses General Nursing

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I have been a charge nurse on my unit for quite a while now. There is a particular nurse who has been there for many years. She is very knowlegdeable, has very good clinical skills and interacts well with patients and their families.

Management is aware that she is continuously breaking a particular rule. (I don't wish to elaborate, all I will say is that it has nothing to do with patient care or safety. I even created a new identity on allnurses in fear of somebody figuring out who I am.) Management wants me to catch her (it wouldn't be difficult) and write her up. Violating this rule is a dismissable offense. I don't agree that it should even warrant a suspension, but a rule's a rule. The fact of the matter is that she refuses to follow it. I think to myself, "Why can't she just abide by it to avoid consequences?" But she has been a nurse for many years and she is set in her ways.

I am dreading having to do this because if I catch her, I know what the end result will be. I hate to see an otherwise good nurse lose her job over something this trivial. I feel even worse because a few years back she helped cover my butt in a sticky situation, and she also taught me some neat tricks and shortcuts.

I am afraid if I overlook this or turn my head the other way when I see her do this, management will reprimand me for doing nothing. I know I CANNOT tell her because she might go off on them and she will probably accuse management of trying to get rid of older nurses. What do I do? Should I give subtle hints to her to stop it? :uhoh21: Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Well, first and foremost, I, as a charge RN in the ICU I work in, is a part of the management team and we are involved in monthly management team meetings.

If there is NO documentation regarding the infraction, then how can a hospital fire someone? You have to follow the documentation and disciplinary action policy to the letter to be able to fire someone or that person could sue the hospital!

I sure hope you find something you like ChrgRN! It leaves a bad taste in your mouth if you are used to try and get someone in trouble and you've only been a charge nurse for 6 months!

I would not like that type of management style if I were in that situation as well.

I wish you well!

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho.

I have a feeling you are right. If someone in administration wants her gone, shell be gone one way or another. Its sad and unfortunate that things have to go that way because its more than likely a personality conflict than her actual nursing skills.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I have been put in a situation like this by my admin, and I will tell you it sucks! Why can't admin do it if they feel it is needed? But then again...it is part of charge nurse duty isn't it...to ensure safe patient care, and that all facility policies are being followed.

Sadly you really must do what they say and report a violation if one is seen. I know it is a horrible situation to put you in, but the nurse is not following facility protocol/rules and must be disiplined (ouch...I know, some rules are silly looking but still must be followed...even on just on a basis of work ethics).

That is very sad, to see that a good nurse can be shot down so easily for not following a rule that does no pt harm or risk safety! I had to fire two awesome nurses because they were in a hurry after lunch and one had to use the bathroom so the other nurse clocked her back in to save time and get back to work...this was cause for dismissal (you can not even touch another persons time card, let alone clock them in/out). I was mad and in tears when I had to let them know, and that they were needed in the admin office...they knew their checks and pink slips were filled out :(.

But bottom line, that was part of my job...and had to do it or my admin would find a way to make me also guilty by not reporting it.

While I sort of understand what made you decide to report these nurses, I don't think I would have done it the first time around. You say that they were awesome nurses...couldn't you have told them what you witnessed and stated that if it was done one more time, then, you would have to report them?

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Hi again. Just wanted to update everybody on what was going on. Thank you your posts and advice. I haven't been scheduled to work with her all week but two days ago I went to the hospital and waited for her in the parking lot at her vehicle when her shift ended. I told her, "This is off the record and you didn't hear this from me, but management wants me to catch you _____________." It didn't go anywhere near as bad as I thought it might have. She thanked me for the warning, and we chatted for about 10 more minutes. I wasn't unwilling to talk to her, as one poster stated. What I meant by saying I could not talk to her was that I wasn't sure if or how I should approach her about it. She is loud, outspoken, opinionated, and has a tendency to become defensive and argumentive. As DusktilDawn stated, I am sure management didn't want me to warn her.

I am also planning to resign entirely. I have been a nurse for a little over three years, and a charge nurse for six months. I don't like being in charge and it's not worth the stress. I feel mgmt wants this nurse out, and if it isn't this way it will be another. I haven't been happy there for a while, and I want to do something different other than med/surg. A friend of mine has been trying to get me to come to her hospital to work in the OR, and I have an interview Monday. If I am offered the position, I will submit my resignation that day. And when I am finished there I PROMISE I will reveal the infraction.

It was best that you spoke to her first. I am reading that she can be an arguementative person, making this especially hard for you, I am sure, because I have no patience for people like that, to be honest with you. However, I do believe it was better that you did, because this woman may have been doing this behavior (and apparently others) for some time, and because of her argumentative behavior, may not have been approached before. Now, if she goes and gives you up, you can then say that you decided as charge nurse that she ought to be made aware of her transgressions, and after that, she is an adult and can then be held totally responsible for her behavior...PERIOD. And, you can sleep at night, and yeah, I wouldn't take the position of Charge or Head nurse to save my soul. Too many headaches, and bottom line, you really can't change people.

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The rule is something similar to what Happynurse2005 suggested, but if I reveal it, it will be obvious who I am to anybody (particularly management) from my hospital who may read this. I have probably already done or said too much by starting this thread, but I needed advice from somebody.

The rule is something that people don't pay attention to anymore. This nurse is not the only guilty person, but seems to do it the most. Management has seen this rule violated, and nothing was ever said to employees or to charge nurses about not enforcing it. Personally, I think management is after her because she does things one way and one way only.

To my knowledge, she hasn't been warned or reprimanded, but she is aware of policy and refuses to abide by it. As Rebecca Jean suggested, the only fair thing to do might be to warn the employees (in writing) that this rule will be enforced henceforth, and anyone who refuses to abide by it may face dismissal. DusktilDawn is right on the money. They are getting me to do their dirty work. I have been in charge for about six months now and I am starting to regret it. I am not scheduled to work with her for the rest of the week. Maybe it will give me time to reevaluate. Thank you for your help. Goodnight.

Sounds to me as though this nurse needs to be doing her own documenting in regards to others who are breaking the same rule. To target this one nurse is fishy and if others are breaking the rule and not being disciplined it looks as though mgmnt. will not have a leg to stand on.

The monitor tech on our floor was busted >4x's for sleeping while in front of monitor with alarms off. :nono: It was written up on all occasions, sent to mgmnt. in writing and she is still sitting there like nothing ever happened. It relly irks me when mgmnt. says "write it up", you do it, and then you are made to look like a fool. It makes you get to the point where you say, why write it up if nothing is going to done about it? Very frustrating to say the least!

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Hi again. Just wanted to update everybody on what was going on. Thank you your posts and advice. I haven't been scheduled to work with her all week but two days ago I went to the hospital and waited for her in the parking lot at her vehicle when her shift ended. I told her, "This is off the record and you didn't hear this from me, but management wants me to catch you _____________." It didn't go anywhere near as bad as I thought it might have. She thanked me for the warning, and we chatted for about 10 more minutes. I wasn't unwilling to talk to her, as one poster stated. What I meant by saying I could not talk to her was that I wasn't sure if or how I should approach her about it. She is loud, outspoken, opinionated, and has a tendency to become defensive and argumentive. As DusktilDawn stated, I am sure management didn't want me to warn her.

I am also planning to resign entirely. I have been a nurse for a little over three years, and a charge nurse for six months. I don't like being in charge and it's not worth the stress. I feel mgmt wants this nurse out, and if it isn't this way it will be another. I haven't been happy there for a while, and I want to do something different other than med/surg. A friend of mine has been trying to get me to come to her hospital to work in the OR, and I have an interview Monday. If I am offered the position, I will submit my resignation that day. And when I am finished there I PROMISE I will reveal the infraction.

I think you did the right thing talking to this person. I think your also right, it it isn't over this "rule" it will be over something else if they are determined to get rid of this employee. At least she has the opportunity to decide whether she wants to continue working there. I hope all goes well with your interview. Keep us posted.

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Specializes in Pediatrics.

I think you handled the situation as best as could be expected. I hope a new job comes your way! And yes, I am so nosey as to hope you get the job so we can find out what that infraction is!

And I would LOVE it if it were something REALLY petty like reading US magazine at the nurse's station! (Just my dark sense of humor rearing its ugly head)

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One of the MOST difficult things in being in a management position (charge nurse is a first line manage), is having to make difficult decisions and to do things that may make them unpopular. Including fireing their best friend or even best employee.

The ability to set aside personal feelings and prejudices and do what they need to do is a requirement. Not everyone can do this. It is extreemly difficult situation. You accept this responsibility when you accept a "leadership" position within an organization.

Not everyone can do this type of job. Not everyone should.

You have correctly identified yourself as someone who can not at least at this point and time in your career.

It apears this nurse has something called a halo effect with you. This means you are willing to overlook this dismissable infraction because it is the only infraction. You describe her as an excellent nurse in all other respects. Often such nurses count on the halo of thier reputation and work to excuse them from disapline that others would be subjected to.

I suspect if she was not so experienced and good you probably would not be struggling with this issue. She knows she is committing a dismissable offence and knows that her halo just migh carry her through.

Hopefully she will take notice and heed your warning.

If you find yourself in a situation where you must fire someone who is otherwise impecable it is appropriate to tell them that it pains you because of their otherwise sterling performance. It is also ok to express disappointment that they put you in a position where you had to take this action.

IT IS NOT management who put you in this position it it this nurse by her actions. Get it right. If she were not violating this rule that she clearly knows is dismissible then you would not be asked to catch her at it and fire her.

If she is a friend by all means express your disappointment. Friends do not put other friends in such an uncomfortable position. She may be using your friendship to get away with this. She may hope you do not have the guts to fire her because she is a friend. If this is the case she is using you.

I do not for one second suggest that this should make it easier for you. I do though hope you and others here look seriously at this perspective. Just because you are perfect in every other way does not give you permission to falseify your time card (as an example). No matter who you are that is dismissable. The person doing the falseifying is guilty period. Because you personally feel it is a small infraction compared to her other qualities does not excuse it.

Being a leader means doing the right thing even when it pains you. If she were not so sterling otherwise would you be so quick to excuse her? If not then you know what to do. If you would excuse this dismissable act with any one then what does that say about you. Either you support the rules and regulations where you work or you do not (that is not to say, I believe you should support unjust or illegal rules) If you do not then you need to find another place to work that does not have this rule.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, ER and ICU!!!.

OP, how did you interview go? You are in my prayers.

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I got the job! I am starting next week. Funny thing is, I turned in my resignation to my manager, and she didn't seem at all shocked or disappointed that I was leaving. That hurt, because I feel as if I wasn't a valued employee. That was my first job as a nurse. It makes me wonder if she was after me too or wanted me out as well. Or maybe she figured I warned the nurse about the rule she was breaking, and now she's p---ed. I guess the bright side is that I have only two more days left there, so I will reveal now what she wanted me to bust this other nurse for: drinking sodas and juice from the patient pantry. I have worked at this hospital for three years. I have been in charge for six months. This became a firing offense several months before I was in charge. When I was being trained, I DID ask about it. Another charge nurse said nobody enforces it. So I left it at that. Before it was a terminable offense, it was a big problem. The hospital is on such a tight budget, nearly all supplies are in Pyxis. People were being warned about this, and nobody paid much attention. When it became a firing offense, it stopped, then people gradually started up again and nobody did anything. Then I was asked to catch this nurse at it and that's when it all came crashing down. :uhoh3:

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Specializes in Med/Surg, ER and ICU!!!.
I got the job! I am starting next week. Funny thing is, I turned in my resignation to my manager, and she didn't seem at all shocked or disappointed that I was leaving. That hurt, because I feel as if I wasn't a valued employee. That was my first job as a nurse. It makes me wonder if she was after me too or wanted me out as well. Or maybe she figured I warned the nurse about the rule she was breaking, and now she's p---ed. I guess the bright side is that I have only two more days left there, so I will reveal now what she wanted me to bust this other nurse for: drinking sodas and juice from the patient pantry. I have worked at this hospital for three years. I have been in charge for six months. This became a firing offense several months before I was in charge. When I was being trained, I DID ask about it. Another charge nurse said nobody enforces it. So I left it at that. Before it was a terminable offense, it was a big problem. The hospital is on such a tight budget, nearly all supplies are in Pyxis. People were being warned about this, and nobody paid much attention. When it became a firing offense, it stopped, then people gradually started up again and nobody did anything. Then I was asked to catch this nurse at it and that's when it all came crashing down. :uhoh3:

Glad you got the job and heading out of there. That is sad. It seems like they wanted to make an example and were targeting this one nurse. Good for you for sticking up and making sure this nurse does not have a termination on her record. Good luck on the new job!:balloons: :balloons:

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Tele, DOU.
I guess the bright side is that I have only two more days left there, so I will reveal now what she wanted me to bust this other nurse for: drinking sodas and juice from the patient pantry. I have worked at this hospital for three years. I have been in charge for six months. This became a firing offense several months before I was in charge. When I was being trained, I DID ask about it. Another charge nurse said nobody enforces it. So I left it at that. Before it was a terminable offense, it was a big problem. The hospital is on such a tight budget, nearly all supplies are in Pyxis. People were being warned about this, and nobody paid much attention. When it became a firing offense, it stopped, then people gradually started up again and nobody did anything. Then I was asked to catch this nurse at it and that's when it all came crashing down. :uhoh3:

Whoa,

If the budget is truly that tight, I would be very surprised if this facility is not either closed down or preferrably bought out by a more healthy company.

ChrgRN, how many hospitals are in the local area? Is the patient load at your current employer decent--as in enough to help pay for the cost of care? Man, if that is a terminable offense maybe you should have moved on anyway.

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