What Diagnosis would you say this patient is?

Specialties Hospice

Published

I was sent to do an admission in a LTC facility. The patient was having respiratory distress with stridor. HORRIBLE stridor!

Past history included Alzheimer's disease with dementia and Psychosis. The patient was treated twice in the last three months in a hospital for respiratiory failiure. The last discharge was on 4/29 and orders were for palliative care. Primary diagnosis was respiratory failure secondary to Alzheimer's Disease, dementia and pscychosis.

He had been evaluated at that time and deamed by the evaluating nurse that he was NOT hospice appropriate, The patient was on Prednisone in tapering doses. He finished the last dose over the weekend. Yesterday, he started with the resp distress and stridor, unresponsive, no eye opening response, no moaning, he did have a withdrawal response when you attempted to move his arms for a B/P, could not swallow, and had copious amount of secretions coming out of his mouth. I did not hear any rhonchi, although difficult to auscultate due to the stridor, but nevertheless, his lung sounds were what I called diminished but clear. Do to the drooling, I surmised the patient could not swallow or he would have swallowed the secretions. I admitted under general debility based on the rapid decline in condition and level of consciousness. He also had a HX of CAD and HTN. His B/P for me was a systolic below 90 and is diastolic was in the 40's. Heart rate was 100, respirations were 28.

Our clinical manager, who has not been in the field forever I might add, said to put him on inpatient level of care, which I felt he did not qualify, we had him under control before I left, with levisin (which the facility all ready had ordered) and one dose of Roxanol quieted his breathing. He was comfortable.

The medical director, agreed with me when I told him my findings, that Debility was teh best DX to use.

Now, I am being told he does not qualify for this DX because we do not have a BMI at 22 or below!! I thought that was for failure to thrive?

I understand nutrition is a big part of Debility, but with this rapid decline in LOC and his respiratory distress, wouldn't that be an appropriate DX? ALso, H&P's from the last two hosiptalizations for this visit the MD's all DX with Respiratory Failure.

I also felt that was the appropriate DX for him, Respiratory Failure, based on the DX from the hospital docs and it was on his community referral form. But was told NO, because there is no HISTORY of COPD????

I am not a new hospice nurse, but I am new with this company. Was I taught wrong? All of my "cheat sheets" and criteria information I used does not say a BMI has to be a deciding factor in a debility DX. BUt, nutrition is a factor, this man could no longer swallow! I did put that in my summary note as well. I put all my findings in my summary note to support the DX.

Can you help me out here? It would help me to understand this. I am totally baffled.

Thanks,

Cindy

Specializes in Hospice and Palliative Care, Family NP.
You know what I don't understand? Why can't we just use "dying"? Seriously.

We can't even use "dying" as a reason to put a patient on continuous care or inpatient! There has to be a symptom out of control that needs managed!

Dying? Wouldnt that make us all terminal? hmmm......

You know what I don't understand? Why can't we just use "dying"? Seriously.

You know, when I am admitting someone who is already in the active stage, I've wondered the same thing!

Specializes in ER, CCU/ICU, Trauma, Hospice.

Sure looks liek COPD to me and ES heart

i recently switched from emergency on call to case manager for approx 16 pts - most in assited living- lots of dementia and some cardiac- the problem is- many of them don't technically qualify!

has anyone had this experience?

txs g in jersey

medicare provides criteria guidelines it sounds like he could be end-stage Alz. did he aspirate?

Specializes in Hospice and Palliative Care, Family NP.
medicare provides criteria guidelines it sounds like he could be end-stage Alz. did he aspirate?

No he did not aspirate, he did not qualify for Alz. He had "upper respiratory obstruction". The patient died last week. He had the worse Kennedy ulcers I have ever seen! They came out of no where!

Specializes in Pulmonary, Cardiac.
I tried that and was shot down. As I pointed out on the CRF and the H&P, he was hospitalized twice in two monts for Respiratory Failure. THe documentation clearly supports it. I was told, "there is no history of COPD" I was thinking to myself "WHAT THE?

Respiratory Distress/SOB and Respiratory Distress Syndrome NOS are both Hospice Diagnosis' that we use here.

~C:D

Specializes in Hospice and Palliative Care, Family NP.
I tried that and was shot down. As I pointed out on the CRF and the H&P, he was hospitalized twice in two monts for Respiratory Failure. THe documentation clearly supports it. I was told, "there is no history of COPD" I was thinking to myself "WHAT THE?

Respiratory Distress/SOB and Respiratory Distress Syndrome NOS are both Hospice Diagnosis' that we use here.

~C:D

Thanks!! I had not heard of these.

Specializes in ICU, SDU, OR, RR, Ortho, Hospice RN.

I have not read all the posts but is he not appropriate for his Dementia then have the respiratory distress as a secondary dx?

Get your CHPN and fly the coup CANRN.

I did my CHPN last year and what fun that was LOL :yeah:

Although the group of us that went from our organization thought the exam umm errrrrrrrrrr sucked LOL :cool:

Still we all passed.:yeah:

I am shocked but I have also ran into these situations. I would have went with respiratory failure.

I am not sure what state you are in or what your guidelines are, but he would definitely qualify for end stage pulmonary disease. You should have a pulmonary worksheet that is generalized enough to use. He is going to pass away before anyone gets their stuff in gear.

Thanks Sue, for the Link to Kennedy Ulcers.

I had never heard of them before . I learn something every time I come to all nurses .:specs::specs:

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