What to do when co-workers can't keep up any more?

heron, ASN, RN · Feb 3, 2011

Ms birdie22, my point is that ousting older nurses to free up jobs for younger ones is not an acceptable solution.

Personally, I suspect that the proportion of younger nurses not hired due to older nurses hanging in is pretty minor. The market is a lot more complex than that.

Consider the complaints here about being blocked because of requirements for a certain amount of experience. It doesn't matter how many nurses retire, new grads will still have no experience.

nightengalegoddess · Feb 4, 2011

I know what you mean. Some RN's are over 60 and you would never know it. Their bodies and minds are sharp as ever; a wonderful resource for us all...all their years of experience and spry physical stamina. But there are others....oh boy...I know what you mean. If you can't figure out how to even print out an assignment page for yourself because you refuse to learn "these computers", and if you can't lift at least 30 lbs, and if you can't keep a line of thought going for more than two minutes...why would I want or have the time and space to take up all this slack while you are at work??? Because that IS what ends up happening! Everyone feels sorry for her and covers her needs...we end up more or less taking her patients for her! It is not right. And it is not ageism. If a 25 year old nurse came in with these same qualities, would SHE be allowed to work at the bedside? All effort ought to be put forth by administration/management to retain our older nurses who are a huge resource; but at some point the RN may become too infirm to work at the bedside or too unmotivated to learn the new standards and practice them. That DOES become unsafe. Perhaps establishments may think of utilizing her experience for patient care liason work or some other created postition that does not involve direct patient care. Their thinking and bodies may be falling apart, but a lot of these older nurses who are health and mental compromised do still have a lot of valuable information and expertise to share. Perhaps they can be offered council postions part time or something? I know a lot of us are really defensive when it comes to the older nurse. It is natural. This poster may not have been talking about YOU....YOU are probably more in shape and knowledgable than many of the younger physicians! I don't think the original poster had ageism in mind. It sounded like a competency question to me. And yes, document, document, document!!! Blessings!

heron, ASN, RN · Feb 4, 2011

Agreed, nightengalegoddess. I think the fact that the OP felt it important to mention age but not the specific shortcomings that worry her that gave the impression of bias. This is why I and most of the other posters that gave advice emphasized the need for documentation of performance issues.

I agree that no one's interest is served by brushing problems under the rug. If it would be an issue for a youngster, then it's a legitimate issue for an oldster as well.

FlyingScot, RN · Feb 4, 2011

The older nurses shouldnt quit so the younger nurses can get to work - again, its just a fact that the younger nurses are impacted bc the older nurses aren't retiring - not that this is their fault. Perhaps I should have said: "those jobs could go to new grads to help alleviate the unfortunate....".

I'd venture to say that any nurse who is in his/her 60's and still working is doing it to keep a roof over her head and food on the table. To say that they should retire to make room for new grads is beyond unfair, short-sighted and ridiculous. I am in my mid fourties. I am also single and according to the government must work until I'm 67 to receive my full retirement. What would you like to see happen? Should I become homeless and starve just to make sure you have a job when you graduate? I have an even better idea, how about all us old-timers move in with the newbies and you can support us. Sorry but this really frosted my cookies. I agree with Heron the number of new grads not getting jobs because of stubborn old nurses is not statistically significant. In fact many older and consequently higher paid nurses are finding themselves being replaced by younger, cheaper new grads. The current job market is terrible but it's terrible for everybody not just nursing. It's not the old battle-axes causing it. It's the economy.

pawsomepooch47 · Feb 4, 2011

I hope that pasture is mortgage-free and that you've got some "hay" put away.
For OP: Unless you are directly observing errors, my best advice is to keep out. Without being too specific and telling identifying incidents, can you give some examples of what you think these 2 are doing or not doing that makes you want them gone?
Too bad the one who takes Percocet blabbed it to you. This is a good example of why people should keep their private business to themselves.
Poor eyesight - how about some eyeglasses, better lighting?
The one who could be on disability - it's pretty hard to get, hard to live on the low amount you get, hard to get doctors, especially Workers' Compensation doctors to keep agreeing that you are disabled.
Are you possibly just impatient? Do you want their jobs? Not to accuse you unjustly, but it seems that there is at least a possibility that you are not telling the whole story.
What specific complaints have you heard told to you directly by patients or families, doctors, others at work? Be specific and tell what YOU personally have actually been told or have seen, please.

I am not impatient. I do not want their jobs. One is an LPN, I am an RN. The other is an RN and has exactly the same hours I have. I am very frequently in charge of the unit when they are working. As far as ageism goes, I am nearly 50 myself, so i don't think that's it. If I was a patient, I wouldn't want either one of them taking care of me! The one that takes Percocet can be found staring into space and barely gets out of her chair at the front desk. She makes many mistakes and omissions. The other also spends most of her time at the desk, seems confused at times, and gets defensive if you try to help or make any comment.

And i have observed many errors and can't believe i work at a hospital that is so desperate for staff, they keep folks who don't do their jobs employed.

pawsomepooch47 · Feb 4, 2011

I know what you mean. Some RN's are over 60 and you would never know it. Their bodies and minds are sharp as ever; a wonderful resource for us all...all their years of experience and spry physical stamina. But there are others....oh boy...I know what you mean. If you can't figure out how to even print out an assignment page for yourself because you refuse to learn "these computers", and if you can't lift at least 30 lbs, and if you can't keep a line of thought going for more than two minutes...why would I want or have the time and space to take up all this slack while you are at work??? Because that IS what ends up happening! Everyone feels sorry for her and covers her needs...we end up more or less taking her patients for her! It is not right. And it is not ageism. If a 25 year old nurse came in with these same qualities, would SHE be allowed to work at the bedside? All effort ought to be put forth by administration/management to retain our older nurses who are a huge resource; but at some point the RN may become too infirm to work at the bedside or too unmotivated to learn the new standards and practice them. That DOES become unsafe. Perhaps establishments may think of utilizing her experience for patient care liason work or some other created postition that does not involve direct patient care. Their thinking and bodies may be falling apart, but a lot of these older nurses who are health and mental compromised do still have a lot of valuable information and expertise to share. Perhaps they can be offered council postions part time or something? I know a lot of us are really defensive when it comes to the older nurse. It is natural. This poster may not have been talking about YOU....YOU are probably more in shape and knowledgable than many of the younger physicians! I don't think the original poster had ageism in mind. It sounded like a competency question to me. And yes, document, document, document!!! Blessings!

Thank you. it is not just the age, but I have worked with them both for many, many years and they are failing. It's the patients safety I (ALWAYS) have in mind!

heron, ASN, RN · Feb 4, 2011

I am not impatient. I do not want their jobs. One is an LPN, I am an RN. The other is an RN and has exactly the same hours I have. I am very frequently in charge of the unit when they are working. As far as ageism goes, I am nearly 50 myself, so i don't think that's it. If I was a patient, I wouldn't want either one of them taking care of me! The one that takes Percocet can be found staring into space and barely gets out of her chair at the front desk. She makes many mistakes and omissions. The other also spends most of her time at the desk, seems confused at times, and gets defensive if you try to help or make any comment.
And i have observed many errors and can't believe i work at a hospital that is so desperate for staff, they keep folks who don't do their jobs employed.

Thanks for returning and responding. I think we've all been pretty careful about accusations of age-ism ... just reacting to what we've read. If the two workers' actions would be a problem for a young nurse, then they're a problem for the older nurse as well. Documentation of the specific errors and omissions is key, as you know. Have at it.

ETA: in my opinion, overlooking real performance issues to avoid being accused of age-discrimination is a perversion of the spirit of the law. It's most often used as an excuse to avoid the work and unpleasantness of following the proper procedures to correct the problem. After all ... it's a license on the schedule and it takes money to hire and orient new staff.

MomRN0913 · Feb 4, 2011

If there are repeated reportable errors, report them. And I say repeated. because we are all capable of errors. I have made them and I am young.

Although I did work with a guy who should have really retired. he had really abd gout and was in renal failure. He would fall asleep every night shift, probably not be as attentive to patients as he should be, but was knowledgable. I would say it was time to retire, but there were no grounds yet.

Unfortunately his retirement came with having to go on dialysis and repeated hospital admissions.

I hpoe these nurses recognize when bedside nusring is not for them anymore.

steelydanfan · Feb 5, 2011

don't get me wrong, i am not 25 anymore. but 2 of my nursing co-workers are of retirement age and both have significant medical problems, are exceedingly slow and vague, and make huge mistakes. i am fearful one or both of them will kill somebody before they decide to retire. one could be out on disability right now but "can't imagine not coming here every day." (i hate to tell her, but it's not about her.) both have poor eyesight. one takes percocet for pain. i can't believe the powers that be at my hospital can't see how poorly they perform. i fear for them and mostly for their patients. is there anything i can do?

i for one, don't have the time or the wherewithall to look at what my coworkers are or are not doing . "exceedingly slow and vague" and "huge mistakes "are all behaviours that would show themselves in normal audits. so either your supervisors have already seen the errors, and have taken or will take action; or you are reading too much into what you see as styles unlike yours.

because someone wears glasses does not mean they have poor eyesight, and because someone takes percocet for pain does not mean they do on the job.

steelydanfan · Feb 5, 2011

"Nurses eat thier young"?

This is a prime example of the opposite.