We may need fewer nurses in the hospital...

Nurses General Nursing

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WCVB channel five Boston, is now airing, Healthcare Uncovered. A live panel show discussing healthcare and it's cost in Boston. The moderator, Timothy Johnson, MD. One of the panelist, Zane, the CEO of Tufts Medical Center whose 1100 RN's just voted 70%, to authorize a one day strike. This is what I just heard and this is verbatim.

"We may need fewer nurses in the hospital, but we will need more in the community, helping patients to stay healthy. so there maybe some modest job losses, I think there is a great opportunity to retrain caregivers in new professions."

"Doesn't the rank and file worry though, if I am dislocated as a healthcare worker. The job that may be available for me on the other end is nothing of the caliber of the job I trained for and gone to school for as a RN or whatever."

They avoid that question and go on about being unable to sustain the hospital budgets. Over half of budgets are employee salaries(nurses). We must address these salaries and benefits and look into job revocation. They go on to justify this thinking, due to small business unable to afford healthcare here in Mass and therefore leaving the state. There are great opportunities to shift our thinking from acute care to physician and patient remaining well. (paraphrase).

Helen Zane: what the trajectory we are on, the public will not tolerate. Better we get ahead of it. ( she is addressing nurses who want better nurse/ patient ratios). Fueling her position, against the nurses.

They go on and defend physicians who do needless test...talk about salaries and fraud in the same sentence. Implying, nurses must make sacrifices...my reading between the lines. Then go to prevention and teaching. Intervention is most important right now. (agree,but, where are nurses in this) Their focus, doctors, PA and NP.

You all need to watch this, there is so much more. Primary care doctors aren't paid enough, but no mention of professional nursing. Again, ANA where are you?? BSN's you are not being addressed at all. They are talking about eliminating your job. They are talking about retraining you and "retooling" your career. And you all are worried about the difficult patient? We need to get busy...are we even listening to what is happening right before our eyes? Are you all satisfied with your degrees when you have no say in policy? Do we even care?

The lie has been told so much, ever since I can remember 27 years ago. All we needed was BSN to get taken seriously...really?

Why would you give me a citation to a notorious rightwing thinktank page to prove anything based in reality?

First they don't include FICA (social security revenue) which is a full THIRTY SIX PERCENT of federal tax revenue. Christ, how can they not include that with a straight face. How disingenuous can somebody get?

TAKE A LOOK:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm

I used this site because it has a pie chart I thought might make it easier to understand. The same numbers can be found on the Table of Federal Revenues, on Wiki and a host of other places.

2. I suggested you to look at what the top 1/10th of 1% pays to show you how you're being snowed. You'll NEVER find it on sites like that because they are DELIBERATELY skewing the facts to make it look like the uber-wealthy (top 1/10th of 1 %) are paying far more taxes than they are by cherry-picking their revenue sources and also skewing the numbers so that high-end wage-earners are mixed in with billionaires paying next to nothing.

And truly, it's a side issue anyway; the issue is that after gambling with the United States Treasury like a bankrupt Trump Casino, the Republicans now want to give the uber-wealthy another windfall at the expense of healthcare for the middle class.

Well, actually I guess the issue was something about Wisconsin. ;-)

Specializes in L & D; Postpartum.
Why would you give me a citation to a notorious rightwing thinktank page and that does exactly what I said it did?

I told you to look at what the top 1/10th of 1% pays and you'll NEVER find it on sites like that because they are deliberately skewing the facts by using percentages that include the Chief Nursing Officer in with the Walmart heirs.

QUOTE]

I just googled for information and have no idea whether it's right wing, left wing or the rat's patootie.

And I don't take orders from you.

I guess the takeaway from this is closely aligned to the only thing I remember from my Statistics class about 30 years ago; you can prove anything you want...It just depends on how you pose the question.

So feel free to look at only your left wing sites and I'll continue to google for information and read what comes up.

Specializes in CVICU, Obs/Gyn, Derm, NICU.
Your points noted, nothing is perfect. At least you're covered for now and will have some kind of healthcare in your old age which is a lot more than I'm feeling about now and we pay higher costs per capita than anyone I think. . I'm unfamiliar with Australia's economic history but I don't think you've been running anything close to the deficits th USA, have you?

Yes but would like to add something to the post the previous poster from Australia mentioned .... our federal taxes also go toward healthcare ...not just the Medicare levy.

We haven't been so badly impacted with the recession as the US .... we've had our problems but not as bad. Housing is still inflated and the bubble hasn't burst much with that. Some increase in unemployment but generally mining sector strong which is one of our biggest exports.

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.
Actually YOU'RE wrong.

First, the number you are parrotting from thbe propoganda mills is actually like the top 5% if I recall correctly.

Secondly they conveniently ONLY include federal income taxes in this misinformation whereas plenty of poor and middle class people pay through the nose on a composite of regressive taxes (regressive means it hits lower income people harder) like sales, state, fica, and consumption taxes which are still, like, you know, taxes.

Third, 5% or even 2% is skewed - when you say the top 5% you're including numbers that include a surgeon or a married pair of engineers in with the Walton heirs and Koch brothers. How very convenient.

Show me what the top 1/10th of 1% pays. I bet it's less than 8%. If not less. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than 5% now.

.

I think for the sake of fairness it should be noted that everyone, no matter their income bracket pays sales tax, gas tax, registration fees etc (which is what I see as "regressive taxes as you stated). As far as State tax goes that completely depends on the state in which you live. If you think about this the "uber-rich" as I believe they have been referred to most likely pay even more in these taxes as they do consume more products and utilize more gas in those SUV's that many like to complain about.

As for the bantering on the Heirs (ones that have inherited something) I still don't believe that I or anyone else has a right to it just because they feel it is unfair. Sounds a little whinny with a dash of jealousy. Would you (Note: you being nobody in particular) feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot and were one of these heirs?

Our ridiculously high national debt and problems with our tax & health systems are far more encompassing than just its relationship to healthcare. It really has to be addressed as a whole rather than just one piece of it. Everyone in Washington is completely out of touch and out of control, no matter their party affiliation.

That is just how I feel about the whole thing and I will apologize in advance if I have again upset you or anyone else with my post. NOT my intent!

rags

Specializes in ICU.
But don't forget in the US there are lots more deductions at the end of the year which can make a big difference.

What we pay annually in health insurance premiums, copays, prescription costs, and deductibles can eat that up pretty quickly.

My personal feeling is that everybody should pay something.....As it is now, 48% pay no federal income taxes at all. So the people who make that obscene 1.2 million, is paying a whole lot more than enough people to make a small city. And the small city just keeps growing and growing, full of people who pay nothing and continually seek more from those who do.

I don't disagree that everyone should pay something, nor do I agree with the deduction system for that matter. Poor or not it seems ludicrous that people who have more kids that use more schools and public infrastructure pay less than someone that has fewer in these times. But that's my opinion and your mileage may vary.

Just please consider just because poor and struggling people aren't paying federal income taxes does NOT mean they aren't paying TAXES. In fact they are hit harder by regressive taxes because all of their income is spent on non-discretionary items. Also, I don't consider 1.2 million rich for the record. The truth is there's no way to really know what the top 1/10th of 1% make (the truly rich) because they have access to offshore havens, loopholes and a host of things the rest of us don't. 'Nuff said.

I think for the sake of fairness it should be noted that everyone, no matter their income bracket pays sales tax, gas tax, registration fees etc (which is what I see as "regressive taxes as you stated). As far as State tax goes that completely depends on the state in which you live. If you think about this the "uber-rich" as I believe they have been referred to most likely pay even more in these taxes as they do consume more products and utilize more gas in those SUV's that many like to complain about.

As for the bantering on the Heirs (ones that have inherited something) I still don't believe that I or anyone else has a right to it just because they feel it is unfair. Sounds a little whinny with a dash of jealousy. Would you (Note: you being nobody in particular) feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot and were one of these heirs?

Our ridiculously high national debt and problems with our tax & health systems are far more encompassing than just its relationship to healthcare. It really has to be addressed as a whole rather than just one piece of it. Everyone in Washington is completely out of touch and out of control, no matter their party affiliation.

That is just how I feel about the whole thing and I will apologize in advance if I have again upset you or anyone else with my post. NOT my intent!

rags

Not my intent to upset anyone either nor to change anyones minds which I doubt I could anyway given the polarization of the nation. If I can open someones mind though even a crack I'm happy.. This said when people post very misleading or biased citations I feel somewhat compelled to correct. After all where would we have passed nursing school if we did our papers based on random google searches. I used to feel the same way you did on inheritence until I read the fortune 100 wealthiest three years in a row. Almost everyone on it had inherited there wealth and was getting wealthier and wealthier and with the tax code and political system very much supporting that. No matter how you slice it, that is a rigged system against class mobility. As I understand it at least there was virtually no class mobility in the country and no middle class before the estate tax was enacted. I don't WANT anyones money - but I do want a fair return on my own investment in skills and education and I certainly want my kids and grandkids to live in a society where access to reasonable healthcare and education and a reasonable return for hard work is not a pipe-dream.

I refer to Federal Income Taxes paid. That, in my opinion, is the only way to have this discussion because other taxes vary greatly due to where people choose to live.

And here you go:

http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes

You can't say a percentile pays all the taxes if you are only including convenient subsets of taxes. Leaving out almost 50% of the federal collections and then maintaining that it doesn't matter is kinda ridiculous. Note I said federal , not state, so logistics are irrelevant. Note federal income tax composition has changed *dramatically* over the past 35 years off of larger corporations and wealthy individuals and onto payroll taxes and consumption taxes.

I'm not looking to argue with you even if I admit I don't understand your vehemence as you obviously aren't in the top 1% and I think we can all agree that supply-side taxation hasn't exactly created the prosperity and lifted the boat that the proponents claimed it would.

Have a nice day.

triquee, Everyone should be taxed.

Equally.

rags

At this point I'd be happy for that as it would be a substantial improvement.

what about nurses who have paid into healthcare programs their whole lives, but now have gone part time, per diem or agency? They are ____________. Only option - individual plan, pay 5,000 per year for you and your kids, and a $10,000 deductible per person per year. No short term, long term, prescription, dental, eye, nothing. Where is a nurses' organization to buy health insurance as a group?

I think the ANA does have insurance plan discounts or used to but I'm not sure how much help they are really or if they still exist.

Why would you give me a citation to a notorious rightwing thinktank page and that does exactly what I said it did?

I told you to look at what the top 1/10th of 1% pays and you'll NEVER find it on sites like that because they are deliberately skewing the facts by using percentages that include the Chief Nursing Officer in with the Walmart heirs.

QUOTE]

I just googled for information and have no idea whether it's right wing, left wing or the rat's patootie.

And I don't take orders from you.

I guess the takeaway from this is closely aligned to the only thing I remember from my Statistics class about 30 years ago; you can prove anything you want...It just depends on how you pose the question.

So feel free to look at only your left wing sites and I'll continue to google for information and read what comes up.

I wasn't giving you "orders". I was responding to a message YOU wrote that happened to have misinformation in it. If you don't want me to respond then don't post your tripe on a public forum.

Additionallly it is you who has used biased websites, cherry-picked select revenues to suit an agenda and proposed, ridiculously, that federal taxes vary where people live along with a boatload of other gems. I have supported mine with objective ones that like, you know, economists, the CBO, et al would use. This precisely because things can be made to suit an agenda as you say. You wouldn't "just google" for your medical references I hope.

Specializes in CVICU, Obs/Gyn, Derm, NICU.
Not my intent to upset anyone either nor to change anyones minds which I doubt I could anyway given the polarization of the nation. If I can open someones mind though even a crack I'm happy.. This said when people post very misleading or biased citations I feel somewhat compelled to correct. After all where would we have passed nursing school if we did our papers based on random google searches. I used to feel the same way you did on inheritence until I read the fortune 100 wealthiest three years in a row. Almost everyone on it had inherited there wealth and was getting wealthier and wealthier and with the tax code and political system very much supporting that. No matter how you slice it, that is a rigged system against class mobility. As I understand it at least there was virtually no class mobility in the country and no middle class before the estate tax was enacted. I don't WANT anyones money - but I do want a fair return on my own investment in skills and education and I certainly want my kids and grandkids to live in a society where access to reasonable healthcare and education and a reasonable return for hard work is not a pipe-dream.

While it's good for govt to get estate tax (so it's got more to spend) I'm not sure inheritance tax is a social leveler ???

I don't think it increases upward social mobility.

But it probably helps those at the top of the pile to stay there.

My reasoning is that most of those at the top have large amounts of real money making skill, connections, intelligence, high level of comfort with risk and other attributes that enable them to move upward more easily than average people.

So, have them pay inheritance tax .... but they'll move back up again :twocents:

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