I need some opinions. The other night I was helping out in PACU. (I am usually in ER or Preop, but occasionally go to PACU when needed) I was asked by another nurse to transport her patient upstairs. The patient was early 30's female, very nice, always saying thanks when people helped her. We talked as I took her to her room. She had surgery for a cancer recurrence, so we talked about the surgery, her young kids, her family, etc. It was shift change, so I ended up having to wait with her for quite a while to see her nurse, the PACU nurse has to have face to face time with the receiving floor nurse. During this time we chatted some more. Then I left when her nurse got there.
The next day I was off. I was thinking about this patient and how nice she was. I called her room to check on her. I just let her know I had been thinking about her, and asked how she was doing...get well soon, etc. She seemed very appreciative.
A few days later I told her PACU nurse that I had spoken with her. This nurse was very offended with me and said I had broken HIPPAA (sp?) laws by calling the patient to check on her. Is this true? I just thought I was being nice. When I had my daughter, the L&D nurse called the next day to check on me. I know hospitals can be lonely places and thought one might like to hear a friendly voice and know someone was thinking of them.
Specializes in Medsurg/ICU, Mental Health, Home Health.
Then she caught flack several days later for what I consider meanness on the part of the PACU nurse
Perhaps the PACU nurse was worried that everything would come back to her. Remember, the OP was helping out the PACU nurse. If there was a HIPAA breach, the PACU nurse could be in hot water for being an accessory, no?
I don't think the PACU nurse sounds like the nicest person, either, but what seems mean might be fear. I know if I were in her shoes, and honestly thought HIPAA had been violated, I would be worried because the patient was UNDER MY CARE.
Specializes in Medsurg/ICU, Mental Health, Home Health.
Yes, and since most patients in PACU are marginally conscious, nurses who have worked there for a considerable amount of time, lose perspective in regard to human decency....
I cut my teeth in the PACU, so to speak. I probably wouldn't work there ever again because I think I would be miserable. The atmosphere, to me, stinks! And so do the attitudes! But...priorities in the perioperative world are completely different. I don't give a flying cupcake if my PACU nurse is nice, I hope she assures that I recover from anesthesia with flying colors -- THAT is her job. I wouldn't complain about having a nice nurse, but is that REALLY what's important in that fast-paced critical care environment?
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
From OP:
"We talked as I took her to her room. She had surgery for a cancer recurrence, so we talked about the surgery, her young kids, her family, etc. It was shift change, so I ended up having to wait with her for quite a while to see her nurse, the PACU nurse has to have face to face time with the receiving floor nurse. During this time we chatted some more. Then I left when her nurse got there."
It seemed to me that they bonded, probably spent more quality time communicating, than most nurses spend with patients to whom they're assigned.
The next day when OP reported - on this site, that she called the patient)
"I called her room to check on her. I just let her know I had been thinking about her, and asked how she was doing...get well soon, etc. She seemed very appreciative."
Then she caught flack several days later for what I consider meanness on the part of the PACU nurse:
"This nurse was very offended with me and said I had broken HIPPAA (sp?) laws by calling the patient to check on her. Is this true? I just thought I was being nice. When I had my daughter, the L&D nurse called the next day to check on me. I know hospitals can be lonely places and thought one might like to hear a friendly voice and know someone was thinking of them."
Some L&Ds had follow up calling programs, but I haven't heard of that recently since the crunch in staffing at most OB units happened.
I know when I had a RN check on me after I had my baby it wasn't from policy. I also was in the hospital for 4 days following my hysterectomy (with other repairs). Well 3 days after discharge I was back in for complications. One of the nurses popped in to say hi and see how things were going because she saw me on the patient list. (I was on the Peds floor which had some womans care beds there) anyway, she had been my nurse for 2 of the days my first stay and was worried when she saw I was back.
In both of these occurrences, I as the patient, never once stopped to think what these nurses did was wrong and it made me feel really good to feel as though the nurses cared. My total of a week long stay (4 the first time and 3 when I went back a few days later) I had a variety of nurses, some seemed like robots and left a very cold feeling. Some were way to chatty for their own good, but those nurses that seemed to look at me as a person and not a room number really made the difference in my stay.
I took a lot from my care that time and brought it into my clinicals now on the other side.
Anyone can call and ask for a patient and get rung to their room, (at least at our hospital) so I don't see where the nurse broke any HIPAA rules. She called the patients room and said hello.
I think the bottom line in a situation like this comes down to hospital policy and I know after this thread I will for sure be making sure I know the policy for my facility on it. I can see myself saying Hi or seeing how a patient is doing during clinicals, in fact I have done this and I have only been complimented for my instructor on this.
But to cover my own butt I will check what the policy is on this.
lamaze teacher posted: ( and i think i need another cuppa coffee to understand it)
originally posted by achot chavi view post
the same could be said about the nurse who is fixated on a patient and continues the interest and contact with said patient even after her work with that patient has been completed.
i haven't seen anything in this longer than necessary discourse, about the nurse entering the information in the nursing care plan about what the situation between the patient and her family was, that needed intervention. once that occurs, no case is completed without addressing that problem.
professional nurses give their all during their shift including caring and professional nursing care and when the patient is no longer under their care, move on to the next one. only in the movies should (?) nurses continue a personal contact.
the denial that family members exhibited, that precipitated their negative response to a nurse who addressed the patient's need for correct information about her condition, wasn't normal or appropriate. action needed to be taken to ameliorate that imposition of guarded communication. referral to a social worker needed to be made to resolve the need that the patient and her family exposed, when an attempt to counter the misinformation the family wanted to continue, met outrage and threats to a nurse's job.
if the referral to msws couldn't be fulfilled that day, or the next one, it was entirely within the nurse's role to check on the patient the following day.
huh!!!!??
i think you are jumping from thread to thread and answering my quote with someone elses info. i never referred to care plans or family members negative reactions etc.
let us all just agree to disagree and allow our facilities to set policy on this issue.
I really really really want to tell Rachelita that what she did was a-okay. I do.
But...
I don't think it was.
There's something about calling a patient on one's day off that isn't sitting right with me. If I were on the receiving end of that call, I would wonder why on Earth this nurse (who was never even in charge of my care, just assisted in a transport) took time out of her day...her NON-WORK day to check up on me. I think it would weird me out a bit. I know, I know...it's the thought that counts. Yeah, well...intent follows the bullet, too.
(Sorry if I'm making no sense. I'm sunburned, on Robitussin and Kyle Busch won the race. It means good ol' Camaro here is in a weird mood...)
lamaze teacher posted: ( and i think i need another cuppa coffee to understand it)
originally posted by achot chavi view post
the same could be said about the nurse who is fixated on a patient and continues the interest and contact with said patient even after her work with that patient has been completed.
i haven't seen anything in this longer than necessary discourse, about the nurse entering the information in the nursing care plan about what the situation between the patient and her family was, that needed intervention. once that occurs, no case is completed without addressing that problem.
professional nurses give their all during their shift including caring and professional nursing care and when the patient is no longer under their care, move on to the next one. only in the movies should (?) nurses continue a personal contact.
the denial that family members exhibited, that precipitated their negative response to a nurse who addressed the patient's need for correct information about her condition, wasn't normal or appropriate. action needed to be taken to ameliorate that imposition of guarded communication. referral to a social worker needed to be made to resolve the need that the patient and her family exposed, when an attempt to counter the misinformation the family wanted to continue, met outrage and threats to a nurse's job.
if the referral to msws couldn't be fulfilled that day, or the next one, it was entirely within the nurse's role to check on the patient the following day.
huh!!!!??
i think you are jumping from thread to thread and answering my quote with someone elses info. i never referred to care plans or family members negative reactions etc.
let us all just agree to disagree and allow our facilities to set policy on this issue.
yeah, i'm having difficulties with this one too. maybe some clarification is warranted. i'm sure lamazeteacher meant well.
I know when I had a RN check on me after I had my baby it wasn't from policy. I also was in the hospital for 4 days following my hysterectomy (with other repairs). Well 3 days after discharge I was back in for complications. One of the nurses popped in to say hi and see how things were going because she saw me on the patient list. (I was on the Peds floor which had some womans care beds there) anyway, she had been my nurse for 2 of the days my first stay and was worried when she saw I was back.
In both of these occurrences, I as the patient, never once stopped to think what these nurses did was wrong and it made me feel really good to feel as though the nurses cared. My total of a week long stay (4 the first time and 3 when I went back a few days later) I had a variety of nurses, some seemed like robots and left a very cold feeling. Some were way to chatty for their own good, but those nurses that seemed to look at me as a person and not a room number really made the difference in my stay.
I took a lot from my care that time and brought it into my clinicals now on the other side.
Anyone can call and ask for a patient and get rung to their room, (at least at our hospital) so I don't see where the nurse broke any HIPAA rules. She called the patients room and said hello.
I think the bottom line in a situation like this comes down to hospital policy and I know after this thread I will for sure be making sure I know the policy for my facility on it. I can see myself saying Hi or seeing how a patient is doing during clinicals, in fact I have done this and I have only been complimented for my instructor on this.
But to cover my own butt I will check what the policy is on this.
OK. Just be careful. As everyone is pointing out, there are different shades of gray.
Yeah, I'm having difficulties with this one too. Maybe some clarification is warranted. I'm sure Lamazeteacher meant well.
Lamazeteacher is a doll and I like her as well, I am sure as you said she meant well, and it is legitimate for all of us to have different opinions on this matter.
I don't know of any HIPAA laws that inquiring about a clients status directly with the client would be violated. I think a simple hello, how are you is a very nice gesture. Often clients leave a facility with the wrong impression it would be nice to have a client remember a facility for the right reasons.
lamaze teacher posted: ( and i think i need another cuppa coffee to understand it)
originally posted by achot chavi view post
"...... longer than necessary discourse, about the nurse entering the information in the nursing care plan about what the situation between the patient and her family was, that needed intervention. once that occurs, no case is completed without addressing that problem."
"the denial that family members exhibited, that precipitated their negative response to a nurse who addressed the patient's need for correct information about her condition, wasn't normal or appropriate
huh!!!!??
i think you are jumping from thread to thread and answering my quote with someone elses info. i never referred to care plans or family members negative reactions etc.
you're quite right, :imdbb: it was very late at night when i wrote that........ and i did mix another thread with this one. :dzed: i think it was the dx of progressed cancer that got to me....
however it is important that nursing care plans outline the steps for nursing goals to be reached - :igtsyt:not that this thread's patient had any specific need for a quickie visit from a nurse who held that patient's wellbeing on her mind. it was more the nurse's need to touch base with that patient again; and another nurse who squashed that, shamelessly under false accusations. it's hard to figure out why nurses do that to one another.....
let us all just agree to disagree and allow our facilities to set policy on this issue.
:kiss
sure, yet i'll bet there's nothing in the listed policies anywhere about nurses being forbidden to check in with patients, after working (assigned or not) with them. :sofahiderthe idea that any diversion from protocol committed by one nurse (unless she/he was the mentor for the other....), caused criticism that fell back on another nurse who had no knowledge of what had happened, is just ridiculous! (i think that was a possibility broached by another poster, on this thread).
I don't know of any HIPAA laws that inquiring about a clients status directly with the client would be violated. I think a simple hello, how are you is a very nice gesture. Often clients leave a facility with the wrong impression it would be nice to have a client remember a facility for the right reasons.
Yes, but there is a far cry between what you describe and what the OP did:
"I need some opinions. The other night I was helping out in PACU. (I am usually in ER or Preop, but occasionally go to PACU when needed) I was asked by another nurse to transport her patient upstairs. The patient was early 30's female, very nice, always saying thanks when people helped her. We talked as I took her to her room. She had surgery for a cancer recurrence, so we talked about the surgery, her young kids, her family, etc. It was shift change, so I ended up having to wait with her for quite a while to see her nurse, the PACU nurse has to have face to face time with the receiving floor nurse. During this time we chatted some more. Then I left when her nurse got there.
The next day I was off. I was thinking about this patient and how nice she was. I called her room to check on her. I just let her know I had been thinking about her, and asked how she was doing...get well soon, etc. She seemed very appreciative.
A few days later I told her PACU nurse that I had spoken with her. This nurse was very offended with me and said I had broken HIPPAA (sp?) laws by calling the patient to check on her. Is this true? I just thought I was being nice. When I had my daughter, the L&D nurse called the next day to check on me. I know hospitals can be lonely places and thought one might like to hear a friendly voice and know someone was thinking of them.
Did I do something wrong?????????
1) the patient wasnt HER patient, she was asked to transport her upstairs, thats all.
2) she called from her home, on her day off to the patients room, uninvited. If the patient had asked to stay in touch it would be different, if they had met in the hall, it would be different, but to call from home....I am sorry but in this day and age, it is weird and not recommended. If the nurse wanted a connection, she should have asked the patient, would you like me to call on you tomorrow...
3) I would agree that no HIPAA laws were violated per se, but it is certainly unusual. While she was just being nice, and we all agree that she was, sometimes the best intentions....
4) lastly, what was she trying to do by telling the PACU nurse that she followed up contact? Was she boasting? Was she trying to make an impression? If she had done it to be nice, than why bring it up to the PACU nurse?
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Penelope_Pitstop, BSN, RN
2,369 Posts
Perhaps the PACU nurse was worried that everything would come back to her. Remember, the OP was helping out the PACU nurse. If there was a HIPAA breach, the PACU nurse could be in hot water for being an accessory, no?
I don't think the PACU nurse sounds like the nicest person, either, but what seems mean might be fear. I know if I were in her shoes, and honestly thought HIPAA had been violated, I would be worried because the patient was UNDER MY CARE.