Utah surgeons against AA's

Specialties CRNA

Published

I found this to be very interesting. The docs on this site promote anesthesiologists and CRNA's, but is anti-AA. http://utahsurgeonsforsafeanesthesia.com/index.asp

Many docs in Utah have been trying to get aa's here for several years. These surgeons are against it based on the grounds of lack of training, insufficient data regarding aa safety, etc. Give it a read.

Specializes in CRNA.

"Even the CRNA had a rough start in the early days."

The early days? like the 1880's? that's the beginning of nurse anesthesia. Surgeon's requested and often trained nurses to do their anesthesia in the late 19th century. CRNAs have had challenges throughout their history, but continue to grow as a profession. AAs will not have many options for practice in the future, the trend is away from the ACT practice which is the only practice model in which they can function. Financial pressures are going to make the ACT obsolete because it costs more with no added benifit. CRNAs working with MDAs and all providers billing independently is the way of the future, not to mention all CRNA practices.

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Specializes in icu/er.

in smaller hospitals in rual areas of the country where they cant afford to have mda on staff or on call 24/7 an aa could not function independently unlike the crna can. you are selling the yrs and sometimes a decade of critical care training and learning that srnas/crnas have aquired short. you must not under cut the experience and learning you get from your critical care nursing time prior to actually learning anesthesia, and that is something that aa's just can't match.

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I personally believe that AA's need to be phased into the picture more, especially in large hospitals. The salary is less than an MD/CRNA which would save the hospital money and they can be a knowledgeable and effective part of the healthcare team.

The arguments I'm seeing here are simply dead-ended. For example, on the website you posted they said something along the lines of "anyone can enter an AA program with no healthcare experience and become an AA in 2 years". Hmm, what other profession does this remind me of? Nursing, Surgical Technicians, X-Ray Technicians, Paramedics, PTA's, OTA's...

Additionally, they say that there is a lack of evidence supporting their effectiveness and safety. Well, this is probably because there is a lack of AA's all around!

Don't forget that you can become a physician without healthcare experience. You can't be a CRNA without healthcare experience though. :)

I don't know if the AA requirements have changed or become more stringent but I remember about 5 years ago (when I was just starting CRNA school), I was reading Emory's AA website. It gave a break down of the GPA averages and MCAT scores and the different degrees there applicants had prior to admission. 1 of those accepted students had a bachelors degree in MUSIC.

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AAs are certainly a threat to CRNAs. As the CRNA political establishment becomes more militant about the independence of CRNAs and continues to equate their members to anesthesiologists in performance, training, etc, the physician anesthesiologists will do whatever it takes to preserve their specialty of medicine. CRNAs have fortunately awakened a sleeping giant, and AAs are part of the answer.

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AAs are certainly a threat to CRNAs. As the CRNA political establishment becomes more militant about the independence of CRNAs and continues to equate their members to anesthesiologists in performance, training, etc, the physician anesthesiologists will do whatever it takes to preserve their specialty of medicine. CRNAs have fortunately awakened a sleeping giant, and AAs are part of the answer.

Nope were tired of you pushing false hoods aa's no threat. We need to tell public the truth behind the doors of hospitals,specialty hmm,nurses did it before and we can do it again we are trying to perserve our rights that are always under attack from Anesthesiologists. If the truth gets out to the people ,thats what your afraid of the most.

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AAs are certainly a threat to CRNAs. As the CRNA political establishment becomes more militant about the independence of CRNAs and continues to equate their members to anesthesiologists in performance, training, etc, the physician anesthesiologists will do whatever it takes to preserve their specialty of medicine. CRNAs have fortunately awakened a sleeping giant, and AAs are part of the answer.

..and with that, the death of the all MDA/DOA model. "One often finds the path to destruction on his way to try to avoid it" - Kung Fu Panda.

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I contacted my representative Wayne Niederhauser regarding the issue of AA's in Utah. He told me he will not decide before the election where he stands on the issue as both sides are convincing. I told him I cannot vote for him then. Here is part of his response. ...."By the way, I won't be deciding on how I vote on the AA bill because of you didn't vote for me." He did not even use propper grammar. My problem is the attitude and the fact that he will not make a choice. I am not into wishy washy politicians. I cannot vote for someone who is possibly opposed to my future career.

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Specializes in Cardiac, Pulmonary, Anesthesia.

HAHA, I actually like that response he gave you.

Plus you should not make fun of someone's grammar when you cannot spell proper.

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Congrats on getting me on the spelling of "propper". I set myself up there. I still think his response was unprofessional.

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"The early days? like the 1880's? that's the beginning of nurse anesthesia. Surgeon's requested and often trained nurses to do their anesthesia in the late 19th century.

Now why did surgeon have nurses do their anesthesia? Was it possible that they condescendingly felt that anesthesia provision only required "just" a nurse with a little extra training? That anesthesia provision was easy enough for "even" a woman to be able to safely be charge of it? Granted, not just any woman, a well-educated professional woman.

And where else would a surgeon find such capable and 'respectable' (eg from a decent family with a good education) assistance at an affordable wage except from women? For the same price, there's no way they could have hired such capable and respectable men, as such men had many other opportunties and much greater expectations (in terms of earning power). Capable, educated women of the time had few such challenging and rewarding opportunities and no one expected professional women to earn wages that were anywhere close to that of professional men.

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Specializes in CRNA.
Now why did surgeon have nurses do their anesthesia? Was it possible that they condescendingly felt that anesthesia provision only required "just" a nurse with a little extra training? That anesthesia provision was easy enough for "even" a woman to be able to safely be charge of it? Granted, not just any woman, a well-educated professional woman.

And where else would a surgeon find such capable and 'respectable' (eg from a decent family with a good education) assistance at an affordable wage except from women? For the same price, there's no way they could have hired such capable and respectable men, as such men had many other opportunties and much greater expectations (in terms of earning power). Capable, educated women of the time had few such challenging and rewarding opportunities and no one expected professional women to earn wages that were anywhere close to that of professional men.

Sure I think you could say that. Surgeon's trained nurses primarily because they didn't want their patients to die during surgery. It was hard enough to convince patients to consent to surgery. Not sure I would call it 'condescending', but most people didn't appreciate the skill involved in providing a good anesthetic, until they saw the difference a good anesthetist could make. And money was without a doubt a factor, anesthesia did not pay nearly as well then. Physicians were not interested, they wanted to be the surgeon not the anesthetist.

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Specializes in Cardiac, Pulmonary, Anesthesia.

Physicians that were not interested in performing anesthesia at that time because it was not a diagnostic or treatment service. It merely allowable optimal conditions for the treatment to be carried out.

I highly doubt that they thought "it was simple" enough to teach a nurse since in those days patients died, with great frequency, from anesthesia.

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