US needs foreign-trained healthcare workers

[mhwa]

:monkeydance:The Wall Street Journal, one of America's leading newspapers, has just published an editorial imploring Congress to free up visas for healthcare workers who are trained overseas.

http://www.hammondlawfirm.com/wsj91207.pdf

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

US needs more nurses - US trained or not, US Citizen or not! That is a fact.

Solution: Increase the faculty to increase nurse student admission in colleges and universities.

Question: Where to get the faculty? From the pool of nurses so in effect you need more nurses to replace them.

Question: Where to get nurses to replace them? From US graduates or Foreign-nurses....

Conclusion: US still needs foreign nurses....

SOLUTION: Increase the pay of nurses to attract nurses who are not doing nursing anymore.

Question: By how much to attract them? $$$$$$$$....

Question: Increasing the salary, increases the patient's bill???

Conclusion: US needs nurses whose pay is affordable but attractive. That you can get from Foreign nurses...

And that where you are very wrong.

American has plenty of nurses, and more than enough people willing to be nurses.

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF NURSES IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What they object to is the highly dangerous ratios and impossible conditions...some of which foreign nurses also object to...please see the thread about the Sentosa immigrant nurses walking off the job.

They are in many cases not even requesting higher wages....wages are not the issue. Dangerous conditions are the issue.

You want proof. In California, where it is expensive to live, but where there is a ratio law, the shortage has been greatly lessened...American nurses are returning to work as nurses, and nurses are coming from other places to work in California, because they can certain of a manageable patient load. Wages in many cases for travelers have gone down, and nurses are still willing to go there because our licenses are safer.

On the other hand, we have states like Florida where there are no ratio laws, and large numbers of forprofit hospitals trying to squeeze every little dime. You can be fired/censured if you do not show up for work during a hurricane, even if it would mean living your kids alone, or even if your home is seriously damaged. They insist that one gets paid "in sunshine", low census personnel repeatedly over the summers when patient numbers or low...so you have difficulty covering your bills. You cannot count on your paycheck.

As such, retrogression is requiring facilities to improve conditions - for ALL nurses, including those with green cards. They are having to reattract nurses back. This is a good thing here.

As such, few of us want H1B back, as it served to a certain extent to "indenture" people to hospitals.

Does the profit interests behind the WSJ want to import large numbers of HCWers to dilute wages and provide a more easily controlled labor force. Would it be good for the "overworked nurses" here, patients here, or the thousands of nursing school applicants fighting to get into our schools? No, it wouldn't.

If the WSJ wants to increase nurses in the USA, there is and easy solution. Attract those licensed nurses that have left the profession back in - this is much cheaper, easier, than increasing visas. Reinvest in our own workforce, by increasing funds for nursing school, especially when many states have been DECREASING funding for nursing school. This would also take many unemployed Americans andr eturn them to the workforce.

This may not meet with approval from those awaiting to immigrate. They have this mistaken notion that Americans are being very picky about work, do not want to work hard and are all about money, when nothing could be farther from the truth. We care about the patients. And their safety depends on improving ratios and conditions, something that hospitals will not do when they can import labor that is longterm contracted and has limited ability to fight against poor conditions...as seen in the Sentosa case.

[Rep]

Not a lot of nurses want to go into faculty simply because the pay is not competitive as on the floor. Nurses makes more money working at bedside than preparing students to become future nurses. And I understand a faculty nurse needs to earn masteral units in order to teach. Correct me if I am wrong on this requirement.

As long as there is an opportunity for foreign nurses to come. Let us use this to our advantage. Let us send qualified foreign nurses here to the US.

The "nursing shortage" here are caused by American nurses not willing to work in the current condition.

For me the pay now is better, what puts off American nurses is the working load now. Even where I work where the ration is 1:5 the load is heavy because you do the job of the CNAs aside from your normal routine. The CNA are not always available because their workload is also heavy. Usually in our floor, they have 9 to 10 patients to care. If management/corporate correct this deficiency, then the "nursing shortage" would not be a problem at all.

And I agree that US needs more nurses. And how? Increase pay and improve working conditions and more nurses will be coming.

And last, dont get me wrong, I am in favor of legal immigration of nurses as long as the opportunity is there. America is a land of immigrants and should be remained so. Sadly, illegals are giving it a bad name. Off topic already.

US needs more nurses - US trained or not, US Citizen or not! That is a fact.

Solution: Increase the faculty to increase nurse student admission in colleges and universities.

Question: Where to get the faculty? From the pool of nurses so in effect you need more nurses to replace them.

Question: Where to get nurses to replace them? From US graduates or Foreign-nurses....

Conclusion: US still needs foreign nurses....

SOLUTION: Increase the pay of nurses to attract nurses who are not doing nursing anymore.

Question: By how much to attract them? $$$$$$$$....

Question: Increasing the salary, increases the patient's bill???

Conclusion: US needs nurses whose pay is affordable but attractive. That you can get from Foreign nurses...

[Rep]

Since you live in the Philippines, you may not realize that your use of "boys and girls" is derogatory. I'm going to choose to believe that rather than believe that you're intending to be insulting.

"Boys and girls" is not a derogatory remark there. Only in the USA.

[Music in My Heart]

US needs more nurses - US trained or not, US Citizen or not! That is a fact.

The US also needs more jobs at which people can earn enough money to support themselves within a standard deviation of the median standard of living in this country.

To ignore that fact in trying to address the "shortage" is short-sighted and poor public policy.

Yes, it is certainly to the benefit of administrators and shareholders to import labor from third-world countries. It's not, however, to the benefit of American society.

[AstonishiaInlimbo]

I believe America needs foreign-trained workers...

Americans get hardworking healthcare workers who will put up with their demands and the demands of the healthcare institute...

and if foreign-trained healthcare people work in the USA, they pay taxes...

taxes that go to:

-Free school lunches for kids of low-income American families

-Free / low cost public education for American kids

-Free medical/dental for low-income American families

-Unemployment insurance

-Medicare for the Aged and Disabled Americans

-Financial aids / Scholarships for American kids

-Child protection services

-the building or funding of schools, museums, roadworks, war, etc...

-Food stamps for poor Americans

-WIC for American Mothers and Babies

-So that the disabled Americans and morbidly obese Americans can get free Hoverounds

-those Americans who are commiting welfare fraud

-etc...

and many many Americans benefit yearly to these...

So yeah, I think the U.S. needs foreign nurses

[RGN1]

Not all foreign nurses wanting to come to America are from "third world" countries. Not that I'm putting down those who are, nor their reasons for wanting to come to the USA.

I have 11 years experience in nursing in the UK - where I grew up. I have a job offer from a US hospital - where they need a nurse for a post they can't fill. I could have applied for over 10 jobs on the 1st 2 pages of their vacancy ads. It's a decent hospital, with decent ratios. I've been offered the exact same wage as any other nurse would be with the experience I have.

Thanks to retrogression I can't get there. I'm in no-man's land - unable to make plans because I have no time scale to work with. The hospital is also at a loss because they are without a nurse that they want.

Don't you think that where there is a clearly proven need (remember that the hospitals have to advertise the job vacancies for some time before they are allowed to petition for a foreign nurse) that the immigration process should be a smooth one, as it is in Canada & Australia??

I have skills & experience to offer my US employer. I want to come over to enhance my own learning & nursing expertise. I want new life experiences for my children - who between them are academically bright & have sporting/artistic abilities so would make a good contribution to their schools in the USA.

Is what I'm asking or wanting so bad?

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

The US does not need to import nurses and deprive other countries of their own intellectual talent. What the US needs to do is better the pay and working conditions and look at nursing as a skilled service rather than simply rolling it up in the room rate for billing.

As is often stated, there are some 500,000 licensed nurses in the US who are not presently working. The market needs to respond in order to entice these people back into the game.

Absolutely correct.

The US does not need to import nurses. Anyone who knows what the real deal is, knows this.

The importation of nurses allows hospitals and other nurse employers to continue to ignore the conditions that are driving American nurses away from the bedside.

[angel Ann]

The US does not need to import nurses and deprive other countries of their own intellectual talent. What the US needs to do is better the pay and working conditions and look at nursing as a skilled service rather than simply rolling it up in the room rate for billing.

As is often stated, there are some 500,000 licensed nurses in the US who are not presently working. The market needs to respond in order to entice these people back into the game.

Have some of these nurses chosen to leave their profession? coz with this huge number of nurses, im sure this is all over america.I think,not all the people are willing to jump from state to another in order to get the job they need..I dont understand why america still needs to hire foreign trained if that's the case.All I know is american nurses are the best paid nurses in the world thats why many foreign nurses not only from Asia but also from Europe are dreaming to come to work in the US and as far as i know,the majority are happy to stay..could you tell me why still dissatisfied?..and what rate do you think should the nurse get paid for?..just asking

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

Don't you think that where there is a clearly proven need (remember that the hospitals have to advertise the job vacancies for some time before they are allowed to petition for a foreign nurse) that the immigration process should be a smooth one, as it is in Canada & Australia??

What many US hospitals do is run a ton of ads to "prove" that they are trying to recruit locally, then they do not contact the qualified applicants that respond

More than once, I have received a nurse recruitment flyer in the mail, and been told there were no openings when I called to inquire.

I read an article recently about a hospital in Virginia that was challenged for this practice. They imported dozens of nurses from the Phillipines, when they had over 200 local nurse applicants whom they had never contacted. Their excuse was not a single one of the 200 RN applicants were qualified. Total b@#$%^&t.

This is common practice in several places where I have lived, and tried unsuccessfully, to find a job.

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

Have some of these nurses chosen to leave their profession? coz with this huge number of nurses, im sure this is all over america.I think,not all the people are willing to jump from state to another in order to get the job they need..I dont understand why america still needs to hire foreign trained if that's the case.All I know is american nurses are the best paid nurses in the world thats why many foreign nurses not only from Asia but also from Europe are dreaming to come to work in the US and as far as i know,the majority are happy to stay..could you tell me why still dissatisfied?..and what rate do you think should the nurse get paid for?..just asking

Here are some articles which explain why US nurses are leaving the hospitals.

Study of U.S. Nurses Finds Young Leaving Profession

http://www.upenn.edu/researchatpenn/article.php?435&hlt

According to a study released in the Journal of the American Medical Association in October 2002, nurses reported greater job dissatisfaction and emotional exhaustion when they were responsible for more patients than they can safely care for. Lead researcher Dr. Linda Aiken concluded that "failure to retain nurses contributes to avoidable patient deaths." http://www.nursing.upenn.edu/news/detail.asp?t=2&id=23

According to a study published by Dr. Linda Aiken and colleagues in the May/June 2001 issue of Health Affairs, more than 40% of nurses working in hospitals reported being dissatisfied with their jobs. The study indicates that 1 out of every 3 hospital nurses under the age of 30 are planning to leave their current job in the next year. http://www.healthaffairs.org

According to a study commissioned by the Federation of Nurses and Health Professionals in April 2001, The Nurse Shortage: Perspectives from Current Direct Care Nurses and Former Direct Care Nurses, currently 1 out of every 5 nurses currently working is considering leaving the patient care field for reasons other than retirement within the next five years. http://www.aft.org/fnhp/publications/index.html

http://nsweb.nursingspectrum.com/cfforms/GuestLecture/ConsideringLeaving.cfm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0843/is_6_28/ai_94590407

http://www.medzilla.com/pressfeb02.html

[RGN1]

What many US hospitals do is run a ton of ads to "prove" that they are trying to recruit locally, then they do not contact the qualified applicants that respond

More than once, I have received a nurse recruitment flyer in the mail, and been told there were no openings when I called to inquire.

I read an article recently about a hospital in Virginia that was challenged for this practice. They imported dozens of nurses from the Phillipines, when they had over 200 local nurse applicants whom they had never contacted. Their excuse was not a single one of the 200 RN applicants were qualified. Total b@#$%^&t.

This is common practice in several places where I have lived, and tried unsuccessfully, to find a job.

It was no flyer I applied through, the hospital is not actively recruiting foreign nurses. I'm talking about bone fide internet job vacancies that any nurse from the USA is able to apply for. In this case the hospital is unable to fill all their vacancies.

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

here is an article in which a filipina rn working in the us expresses her frustration with working conditions in the us. she is adressing the governors advisory council to promote nursing in new jersey

"....one of the primary reasons (us) nurses are leaving the workplace specifically, the hospital setting, is because of the increased work load that is demanding both mentally and physically

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4080/is_200305/ai_n9238050