After posting the piece about Nurses traveling to Germany and reading the feedback. I would like to open up a debate on this BB about "Universal Health Care" or "Single Payor Systems"
In doing this I hope to learn more about each side of the issue. I do not want to turn this into a heated horrific debate that ends in belittling one another as some other charged topics have ended, but a genuine debate about the Pros and Cons of proposed "Universal Health Care or Single Payor systems" I believe we can all agree to debate and we can all learn things we might not otherwise have the time to research.
I am going to begin by placing an article that discusses the cons of Universal Health Care with some statistics, and if anyone is willing please come in and try to debate some of the key points this brings up. With stats not hyped up words or hot air. I am truly interested in seeing the different sides of this issue. This effects us all, and in order to make an informed decision we need to see "all" sides of the issue. Thanks in advance for participating.
Michele
I am going to have to post the article in several pieces because the bulletin board only will allow 3000 characters.So see the next posts.
I think the plan will have to be on a bigger scale, something as large as social securty, medicare, or military medical care or federal employees. I don't think any politician has come even close to figuring out or proposing much of anything to compare. Actually I support the idea of expanding federal employees insurance to those that are underinsured and making medicare available to all who are uninsured with copays scaled to what they are able to pay not just an across the board percentage. The percentage should be a percent of what an individual can pay not a percent of what the insurance company or drug company wants to charge.
Yikes, as a nurse what do you do when one of those "illegal alien hordes" comes into your hospital?Also if you are working as a nurse , I doubt if you are "rich", so why so vehemently take their side, the middle class has been made to pay a higher share of taxes than the rich, dont they deserve a break?
Um - I said I have a nursing degree, I didnt say I worked in the Emergency Room did I? I guess you assume because I have a nursing degree this must mean that I work in an emergency room treating illegal aliens. COuldnt be farther from the truth...In my office, I only accept insurance - If you dont have it, you dont see me, 2 bad. I need to get paid for my services, all the hard work that I have done in my life deserves to be compensated, oh, and I pay my taxes btw. LOL - wow, so many assumptions here - You dont even know what the hell I do and you jump to conclusions all over the place - "why take their side" ROFL - So I guess you are all for class warfare? I do very well, I am not a multimillionaire or anything, but I see the hypocrisy of the left. and yes the middle class DOES deserve a break just not at the expense of the top 1% that pays 40% of the taxes in this country.
Oh, by the way you can hate on Wal-Mart all you want but they bring alot of goods to POOR people at very affordable prices, but I guess you have a real problem with that. I guess you dont want those poor poor people to be able to afford the things that you can, how shameful of you! Arent you just ridden with guilt?
lets blame wal-mart and halliburton for everythnig wrong in America shall we.
Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.
Out of sheer curiosity, what about a system that is based on risk assessment? I'm soley playing devils advocate here, I'd love to have my pie and eat it too (low taxes and universal healthcare where I can have my surgery that week instead of next year), but I know that is probably an impossibility. But now hear me out, what about making it so that we are more responsible for our own health. Smokers, should we be responsible for their Thoracotomy/lobectomy. I dont' remember forcing that cigarette into their mouth........Or what about people who weigh 350lbs and have an MI. They eat potato chips like mad, or fried foods, the most excercise is going from the couch to the bathroom to the kitchen and back to the couch etc. Yeah yeah I know theres a genetic component to a lot of these things, but I think we could probably all agree that the vast majority is caused by our own personal choices. I used to be one that said, eating healthy was more expensive than buying junk, I found out differently. So, what i'm asking is, why should I or you be forced to pay outrageous amounts of money to pay for the treatment of someone else who chooses to lead that lifestyle that they do. Second, with a universal healthcare system like they have in Germany, England, etc, do you realllly want to be paying in the 40+ percentile tax bracket on your salary. Not to mention that to get 20/hour in Germany for a Nurse is absolutly unheard of. I know I am German. The nurses here in America get paid their 40+ an hour due to Supply and demand. And yes it is entirely money driven, but then again so is most of everything that we do in America. Just some things to think about.
And I do believe this is the LONGEST thread I have yet seen. 56 pages, good GOD
Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.
Cute, but it forgets to mention that Medicare already tells you what you can and can not get. Often you can only get it after you've been hurt. Take your 80yr old Grandmother. Shes using a cane right now but needs a walker cause shes unstable and might break a hip, forget it. Medicare doesn't care, she needs to break that hip first so to speak. I ran into this A LOT while doing insurance billing in my last job. Forget the fact they have a RX untill they ccan show they have an actual need not a future need based on a set amount of diagnosis forget it.
And you think we don't get paid well now....HA.....just you wait. Let the government decide how much to pay for that surgery or that office visit and you can DEFINATELY see your salary go down hill....fast.
I just hope that most America voters don't truly believe that it is the governments job to feed us, shelter us, educate us, keep us healthy, and provide for our happiness.
As far as the "evil greedy corporations," when was that last time a poor person paid your salary.
I hope that most voters in America are not getting their political training from you tube. Wasn't The Bill of Rights aka the 1st 10 amendments to the Constitution put there specifically to limit governmental power?
I totally agree that the bureaucracy involved in health care could use some major tweaking. But if someone believes that our government can get its hands of billions of tax dollars for health care and not create major waste, their smoking crack. Ever hear of "earmarks" into bills?
Do your own research. You Tube is only one way of expressing an opinion, I also voice my opinions in writing. Sometimes things like visuals are a bit of a change to the written word. Why so anti You Tube, lots of info there, good and bad.I give American voters credit to form their own opinions using all forms of modern media.Last time I looked the government did supply education.Also, our country managed to end slavery and gave women the right to vote, SURPRISE! we survived as a country, reforms are what has kept this country free, not the status quo.
Oh, by the way you can hate on Wal-Mart all you want but they bring alot of goods to POOR people at very affordable prices, but I guess you have a real problem with that. I guess you dont want those poor poor people to be able to afford the things that you can, how shameful of you! Arent you just ridden with guilt?
lets blame wal-mart and halliburton for everythnig wrong in America shall we.
I didn't say I hate Wal*Mart. I said I don't think a private corporation should be getting taxpayers money.
I am not blaming anyone. Just trying to do my part as a citizen.
Oh and I do volunteer my time and skills.
It's OK I have had to learn not to assume over and over again.
Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.
HA...some education we get. Being that I've lived all over the US and the world, I can tell you there is a VAST difference in the "education" that we get not only between states but also when compared to the world. We are brought up in a, You can't fail little Johnny because it will hurt his self esteem. When I was a Sophmore in HS we had a Russian Exchange student. I'll tell you what, he was beyond anything that my HS had to offer. Him as a kid my age was taking all senior courses in Math, Science, etc, it was review for him. This from a kid coming from a state school in Vladivostok. How pathetic is that. Did I mention I went to a Blue Ribbon HS, supposedly one of the best in the state/nation.
The government can't even manage Medicare without tremendous amounts of waste, yet you are proposing we increase substantially the amount of money and responsibility placed into their hands. No Thank you. The less government involvement in my life, the better. Not to mention what it would do to our economic prosperity. Taxes imposed by the government is a NEGATIVE in the overall economic equation of Y=C+I+G-T. Y=the economy, C=consumer spending worth 66% approx, I=investment worth approximately 20% of the economy, G=Government spending worth approximately 12%. T=taxes imposed on the consumer base by the government, well....thats variable depending on the amount of taxes. The taxes taken out of our pay checks will have a significant impact on the overall economy, even if they are spent by the government. This is the basic equation it does get much more in depth. But this is not the place to go that deep into it.
With no one but Politicians policing the system we would end up just as bad as Canada and the UK.
Simplepleasures
1,355 Posts
I dont totally agree with his idea either, just throwing it out for discusssion. What proposals would most likely win over the voters, I wonder?