Universal Health Care... what would this mean...

HM2VikingRN, RN · Feb 3, 2008

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=482678

Jolie, BSN · Feb 3, 2008

I don't think that we need to do comparative studies between managed care and private insurance. The outcomes from the world stage in countries with UHC are so much better that IMO studies are just a waste of time and money. See http://www.commonwealthfund.org/chartcart/ .

Why is it that those who are in favor of making sweeping changes in the delivery and financing of healthcare in this country are so consistently opposed to producing studies that support their mantra of single-payor, government-run healthcare?

Proponents cite examples from other countries with vastly different systems of government, taxation, social programs, economics, and education and expect the taxpayers of this country to buy into them hook, line and sinker. Fortunately, the American taxpayers are too smart to do so.

In healthcare, we expect treatment to be evidence-based. Americans have the right to demand the same for their system of healthcare delivery and payment.

So, if single-payor, government-run healthcare is indeed such a good idea, show us the evidence by carrying out well-designed studies comparing the cost and outcomes of a number of different plans. I have no doubt that the majority of Americans would support such a change if it is proven to be a better system. Likewise, I have no doubt that Americans will not tolerate such a plan if it proves to be more expensive, inefficient or includes rationing and limitations not currently in place.

And that, folks, is the reason no such study has been done, or even proposed, by the proponents of socialized medicine.

scottlgarrett · Feb 3, 2008

Personal responsibility and common sense are interesting concepts. When a modern day snake oil salesman tells desperate people that taking a "colon cleanser", with cascara, will cure them of virtually any health problem: are they lacking personal responsibility by not buying the product or lacking common sense when they do? We can improve this with better patient education, if they had access.
Many people work pay check to pay check at two or more part time jobs. Not only do they not have health insurance, they do not have PTO. Not everyone's life circumstances allow them the opportunity for trade school or college. Not poor personal choices.

So maby we should be pushing a national education plan vs a national healthcare plan. If our mommy, I mean the government wants to do something for the masses perhaps a free colleg education would be in order for anyone who graduates high school. Then people would have more access to good jobs instead of working at jobs with no benefits. Those jobs should be reserved for high school and college kids, not working families.

It says somewhere (PARAPHRASING HERE) If you give a man a fish you feed him for today, but if you teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime.

People must be responsible for their actions, this is not a concept it is in fact a reality.

scottlgarrett · Feb 3, 2008

HM2 Thank you for your service, Fair Winds and Following Seas.

Miss Chybil RN, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2008

I have posted numerous threads and links to how we can do much better under a universal health care model. Here is a link to one article....
http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_health_of_nations
I think we will do much better with a well designed universal system.

HM2VIKING: Thanks for posting such valuable information. I would like to add I have received wonderful care from the VA. (I don't go there anymore. Since I married my husband, I've been covered by his Tricare plan for military retirees - another great plan.)

While I was going to the VA, I had significantly less wait times for my appointments than at civilian doctor's offices. I was very low on the priority list, (I'm not a wounded/disabled vet. I'm just a plain, old vet), and I was still able to get appointments on a very timely basis. I was sent to specialists quickly. My records were centralized in a computer database. I received my primary care at a satelite office near my home, but no matter where I went within the system, everyone knew what was going on with me. My prescriptions were extremely low cost ($3.00, I think) and were mailed to me every three months and arrived well before I ran out. I am very happy with the care I received there.

I believe a lot of the negativity towards Universal Health Care in this country is founded on fear of the unknown. Fear of what the plan witll look like. Fear the plan will be little more than a windfall for insurance companies and a burden on everyone else. Fear of change and fear of losing what one already has - however tenuous that ownership is -and , quite frankly, fear some fellow citizens may get something for nothing.

I think the French model looks very good. It has proven results and it allows people choices. It's time this country move out of the dark ages and begin providing care for its citizens. Imagine... Emergency rooms being used only for emergencies... Mentally ill people getting care before shooting mall-shoppers... Diabetics never losing their feet for lack of care... Asthma sufferers getting treatment before their lungs are so scarred they have more than just asthma... High blood pressure sufferers learning they have high blood pressure early enough to do something about it.

Preventative medicine is THE key to bringing our healthcare system up to a level we can feel secure in and proud of. Ensuring all Americans have healthcare is a moral obligation we can no longer run from. I'm very hopeful, within the next 4 to 8 years, the idea of anybody in this country not going to the doctor when they are sick because they don't have health insurance will be a distant and ugly memory. We, Americans, are better than that.

Woodenpug, BSN · Feb 3, 2008

So maby we should be pushing a national education plan vs a national healthcare plan. If our mommy, I mean the government wants to do something for the masses perhaps a free colleg education would be in order for anyone who graduates high school. Then people would have more access to good jobs instead of working at jobs with no benefits. Those jobs should be reserved for high school and college kids, not working families.
It says somewhere (PARAPHRASING HERE) If you give a man a fish you feed him for today, but if you teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime.
People must be responsible for their actions, this is not a concept it is in fact a reality.

Hard working, intelligent people are wrapping your meat, handling your veggies and would never take a day off from work for something so trivial as influenza or for that matter any illness which did not render them unconscious.

Miss Chybil RN, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2008

.
It says somewhere (PARAPHRASING HERE) If you give a man a fish you feed him for today, but if you teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime.
People must be responsible for their actions, this is not a concept it is in fact a reality.

Here's a quote to remember:

Man cannot fish with broken arms, ruptured spleen and dislocated hip received from drunk driver who hit him - with no insurance - as he is walking to bus stop in morning for ride to harbor.

That's all for today, Grasshopper.

pickledpepperRN · Feb 3, 2008

Does anyone believe that our government will do any better with a national healthcare plan than they have done with social security? It is just going to be more money out of our paychecks and into the hands of the politicians. Socialism is not an American value.

Social Security had been an excellent program. Many millions of old people and the surviving children of workers who died receive their check on time every month. And have since 1935. In 2000 there was a surplus in the federal budget. I wish that money were in a "lock box".

Social Security - http://digital.library.unt.edu/govdocs/crs/permalink/meta-crs-6399:1

John F. Kennedy was a supporter of social programs - http://www.ssa.gov/history/jfkstmts.html#1961

"It is with great satisfaction that I have signed into law the Social Security Amendments of 1961. They represent in additional step toward eliminating many of the hardships resulting from old age, disability, or the death of the family wage-earner." President John F. Kennedy, June 30, 1961

"Few nations do more than the United States to assist their least fortunate citizens--to make certain that no child, no elderly or handicapped citizen, no family in any circumstances in any State, is left without the essential needs for a decent and healthy existence.

In too few nations, I might add, are the people aware of the progressive strides this country has taken in demonstrating the humanitarian side of freedom. Our record is a proud one--and it sharply refutes those who accuse us of thinking only in the materialistic terms of cash registers and calculating machines." President Kennedy, February 1, 1962

scottlgarrett · Feb 3, 2008

Hard working, intelligent people are wrapping your meat, handling your veggies and would never take a day off from work for something so trivial as influenza or for that matter any illness which did not render them unconscious.

You are absolutely right, but there are just as many with a lesser work ethic who will find ways to get you and I to give them a free ride. I am not opposed to giving someone a leg up, but that is where it has to stop.

Jolie, BSN · Feb 3, 2008

Social Security had been an excellent program. Many millions of old people and the surviving children of workers who died receive their check on time every month. And have since 1935. In 2000 there was a surplus in the federal budget. I wish that money were in a "lock box". Quote]
It is a shame that SS has been so badly mismanaged that those currently paying into the system have no hope of recouping their investments. There is no lockbox, never was, and never will be, so benefits earned and paid for by millions of hard-working Americans have been squandered, and will never be received. Why would you entrust your healthcare to the same politicians who have so badly mismanaged your retirement, and who face no legal consequences for having done so?

scottlgarrett · Feb 3, 2008

Social Security had been an excellent program. Many millions of old people and the surviving children of workers who died receive their check on time every month. And have since 1935. In 2000 there was a surplus in the federal budget. I wish that money were in a "lock box".
Social Security - http://digital.library.unt.edu/govdocs/crs/permalink/meta-crs-6399:1
John F. Kennedy was a supporter of social programs - http://www.ssa.gov/history/jfkstmts.html#1961
"It is with great satisfaction that I have signed into law the Social Security Amendments of 1961. They represent in additional step toward eliminating many of the hardships resulting from old age, disability, or the death of the family wage-earner." President John F. Kennedy, June 30, 1961
"Few nations do more than the United States to assist their least fortunate citizens--to make certain that no child, no elderly or handicapped citizen, no family in any circumstances in any State, is left without the essential needs for a decent and healthy existence.
In too few nations, I might add, are the people aware of the progressive strides this country has taken in demonstrating the humanitarian side of freedom. Our record is a proud one--and it sharply refutes those who accuse us of thinking only in the materialistic terms of cash registers and calculating machines." President Kennedy, February 1, 1962

In 1935 Presedent Roosevelt signed into law the Social Security act.

In 1960 President Kennedy signed into law an amendment setting the retirement age for men at 62.

I checked the link you supplied and it showed projections out to 2070, and each year it shows the prospective number of payors to the prospective number of payees, and is looks very dismal. The numbers were probably the rosey set vs the real set also.

If you are going to but your faith in the government to provide for you when you retire, all I will say is good luck to you.

scottlgarrett · Feb 3, 2008

Here's a quote to remember:
Man cannot fish with broken arms, ruptured spleen and dislocated hip received from drunk driver who hit him - with no insurance - as he is walking to bus stop in morning for ride to harbor.
That's all for today, Grasshopper.

You failed to mention that that drunk driver was in Arizona and is an illegal alien with no insurance and drunk. So now our fisherman is SOL because he bleeds out all over the road from his ruptured spleen before EMS arrives, and national healthcare would not have helped him any how.

This is a fact of life around these parts.