Union or non-union?

burn out · Apr 19, 2006

Unions have tried twice to come into my hospital since I have been there and both times been voted out. I think that one of the biggest problems with trying to unionize nursing is that you have unions without any medical or nursingl involvement trying to come into an environment they know nothing about. How can a meat packer or electrician or teamster understand your job or position well enough to go to a bargaining table to

negotiate your salary and your job and your benefits? It may be representation but is it in your best interest? And then you can still come away from the table with less than you went with because when they sit down to negotiate it is with a clean slate, you are no longer guarantied (sp)

the same pay, benefits , nothing- everything starts from scratch. I may not have much but I would like to hang on to it.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Apr 19, 2006

I've read several studies in the past which have concluded that overall, unionized nurses earn higher wages and are generally happier with their jobs than are non-unionized nurses.

I have a friend in Oregon who is in a union. She's a NICU nurse.

I was shocked to find out about all the bennies she and her co-workers get. And- her hourly wage is more than double what an RN earns where I live.

Sheri257 · Apr 19, 2006

I've read several studies in the past which have concluded that overall, unionized nurses earn higher wages and are generally happier with their jobs than are non-unionized nurses.

This is true ...

From RNWeb.com ...

2005 Earnings Survey: How Does Your Pay Stack Up?

http://www.rnweb.com/rnweb/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=182475&pageID=3

"Without a doubt, however, nurses in unions make more money. These RNs average almost $60,000 per year, about $6,100 (11%) more than their non-union counterparts. The wage gap between union and non-unionized nurses has held steady for years."

Sheri257 · Apr 19, 2006

Unions have tried twice to come into my hospital since I have been there and both times been voted out. I think that one of the biggest problems with trying to unionize nursing is that you have unions without any medical or nursingl involvement trying to come into an environment they know nothing about. How can a meat packer or electrician or teamster understand your job or position well enough to go to a bargaining table to
negotiate your salary and your job and your benefits? It may be representation but is it in your best interest? And then you can still come away from the table with less than you went with because when they sit down to negotiate it is with a clean slate, you are no longer guarantied (sp)
the same pay, benefits , nothing- everything starts from scratch. I may not have much but I would like to hang on to it.

I agree that unions which are run by nurses, best represent nurses. But I disagree that a union has to start from scratch during every negotiation.

I've personally found that the facilities which have been union for several years tend to have the best benefits and pay. Mostly because the union not only keeps what they've negotiated in past contracts, but adds to it with every new contract over the years.

The longer a union has been in a facility, the better the pay and benefits. At least that's what I've found with employers in Southern California.

:typing

mom23RN · Apr 19, 2006

I'm in a HIGHLY unionized state. I hate them. I think in the beginning they had a real purpose, but in my own opinion they have gone too far. They're always trying to tell the employees how they hospital is "screwing them" at every turn. It's like a huge conspiracy.:uhoh21: I found it ironic that our union rep also made TWICE what a staff nurse did and WE were the ones supporting/paying her. So she could rile everyone up into strike mode???

I do agree that our wages are probably VERY competetive, but we still have staffing issues, pay issues, benefits issues, just like everyone else. *shrug*

burn out · Apr 19, 2006

I agree that unions which are run by nurses, best represent nurses. But I disagree that a union has to start from scratch during every negotiation.
I've personally found that the facilities which have been union for several years tend to have the best benefits and pay. Mostly because the union not only keeps what they've negotiated in past contracts, but adds to it with every new contract over the years.
The longer a union has been in a facility, the better the pay and benefits. At least that's what I've found with employers in Southern California.
:typing

You are assuming that everyone already has a contract but if the union is coming in for the first time there is no contract and nothing is promised to stay the same. Yes nurses may have higher incomes if they are unionized but how much are their union dues and what would their pay be minus all the fees incurred?

Sheri257 · Apr 19, 2006

You are assuming that everyone already has a contract but if the union is coming in for the first time there is no contract and nothing is promised to stay the same. Yes nurses may have higher incomes if they are unionized but how much are their union dues and what would their pay be minus all the fees incurred?

There are circumstances where the union may not do as well when they first come in. Generally a brand new union contract will not be as good as union contacts that have been negotiated over 20 years. In some cases, it is possible that the union could do worse.

However, it also depends on how unified the RN's are ... IMHO. If the RN's are unified and there's not much dissention in the ranks ... I have seen unions do very well on a first contract and get big raises. But, if the union barely has a majority and a lot of opposition from other RN's ... then they don't do as well.

As far as union dues, it's still a very good deal. Union dues vary widely ... anywhere from $400 to $1,000 a year. However, if you're making $6,000 more a year on average (as the above mentioned article states) ... then you still come out way ahead because, chances are, you won't make that extra $6,000 a year without a union.

And that doesn't include retirement, healthcare, job protection and other benefits which tend to be better with union contracts.

:typing

kukukajoo, LPN · Apr 19, 2006

I have heard about when it comes to a vote. This is the one thing I do know, lol!

When my ex was working at a powerplant, someone tried to unionize, but they already had better benefits all around than the union could offer and it never happened. He was one step below management so if it had even come to a vote, we would have lost ALL benefits including the nice 100% medical completely company paid.

If they union gets voted in then the negotiations start from scratch and benefits & compensation may or may not be what they already have. In this case, nobody was willing to chance it, as the company was clear that a lot of perks would vanish immediately.

Put it this way- I had to go to Mayo Clinic for a rare illness and to fly me & hubby out there for a week (Rental car, nice hotel, meals- everything) and all the battery of tests cost me a whopping FIVE dollars on their plan! Their medical had all the riders

Retirement was fully vested after just a couple years and company contribution was very high. The company would even give employees loans interest free and other benefits. 4 wks paid vacation at start, and on and on.

dld, ASN, RN · Apr 19, 2006

California Nurses Association has been great for us in terms of improving practice and benefits. It is frustrating to see the game playing between the hospital and the union. The members often don't know who to believe, the union or the hospital. Our dues are 80/ per month. My benefits are pension, paid healthcare for entire family, and 54/per hour pay at noc. I definately believe other non union hospitals have to stay competative with this, and increase the compensation for rns in the region. The 5:1 ratios are a result of the union's political activities. I have never been a big union fan but I think it has really changed nursing practice in California.

RNinSoCal · Apr 19, 2006

I used to work for a non-union hospital in Los Angeles and now work for a CNA union hospital in the Bay Area. All I know is that my pay is DOUBLE what it used to be. Granted nurses have higher pay in the Bay area than in LA, but I know the big difference is the union. Personally, I like the protection and benefits of the union. On the other hand, the hospital I used to work for was good about hiring nurse managers from the floor staff and encouraged higher education. It was nice to have managers and supervisors who were clinically excellent as well as having management skills. The facility I now work for has managers and supervisors who would not be safe to work on the floor. The whole seniority thing is a pain because people who have been there a long time are given jobs over those who may be more qualified for the position. I don't like that. I miss having managers who would put on a uniform and cover a short shift.

Those are just some of the differences I have observed. I was treated with respect at both hospitals. The main thing is to work for a facility that respects its nurses and its patients.