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Discussion

Trouble graduating

I finished my nursing clinicals and the majority of my classes. However in January I was notified that I needed Statistics and Culture and Diversity in healthcare to graduate. I contacted my advisor (who is a nursing professor not at all trained in advising) about taking the classes thru an online university, which would be much quicker. Since the Culture and Diversity class (which I had previously taken and received an Incomplete which was changed into F- even though it should have been changed to a C, but I was willing to retake it in order to avoid confrontation) is only available in the fall. She replied telling me I needed a certain amount of credits from the university (which I had in excess) and would contact two other faculty members. With no response in 2 weeks I assumed we were in agreement and enrolled in the online classes. The online university is nationally accreditted and has the same Nursing accreditation as the University I was hoping to obtain my diploma. When I finished I again contacted my advisor. She told me they could not accept the credits because I didn't receive permission and it was against school policy. (However if I had permission before enrolling in the online classes they would transfer). I contacted the head of the Nursing Department who was very condescending and told me I would have to retake the classes at the university. I then conacted the dean who referred me back to the nursing department. The response I got from the head of the Nursing department was that is was not her decsion to make. I then contacted the dean about filing an academic grievence, he gave me an e-mail of a woman to contact. I e-mailed the woman and my e-mails were all returned to sender. I am meeting with my advisor this week. She asked me to bring course descriptions of the classes. If they are already set on refusing the credits, why would they ask me to bring the course descriptions? Wouldn't this request make more sense if it was asked before refusing to accept the credits. The classes were in no way easier than the ones I have taken at my university (in fact they were more writing intensive and tedious). I am becoming very frustrated and feel as though I am getting the run around. I am meeting with a lawyer on Monday, but I really don't want to take this route. I was hoping to resolve this matter reasonably, but they are unwavering and apathetic (and very rude!!!). I have been trying to understand there reasoning but havent been able to make sense of it. Any suggestions???

Featured Replies

Sorry this is happening to you but sounds like you have all your bases covered...good luck!

Go to your meeting, bring your course description and do what ever you need to do to get them to listen to you and hear your side, I cant believe I am going to type this, but cry if you need too---eegadds my fingers are burning from just typing that!!!

I think it is crazy that they are delaying your graduation over one class, that you took. Do you have any correspondence via email from your adviser when you informed her you were going to take the online class? Do you have any phone calls on your phone bill to the school during that time that you can prove you spoke to her? Or anything in your planner written down about a meeting with her?

Best of luck---be strong for the fight. Best of luck!!!

Take your attorney with you to the meeting, and if he/she cannot go or you don't want them involved at this point, I would find out if your state is a one party consent state and tape record the meeting without them knowing it if your state law permits.

Be consise and clear. Make a list of questions to take with you. I wish you all the best.

  • Author

Wow you guys are quick!!! I have actually been crying about the situation (but now I find it so ridiculous- I can't), and am not sure if I want to give them the satisfaction. (& Its actually two classes- but neither require lab or hands on learning). Great advice! What questions do you think I should ask? I came up with one: What are there reasons for not accepting them? I like the idea about bringing a tape recorder, which I think I will do. I am not going to bring a lawyer for two reasons. The first is money. The second is I am naively hoping we will reach an agreement. At the same time, I still feel like I should seek a lawyer based on principle. Or at least try and set up some guidelines that prohibit them from targeting and treating other students unfairly. I feel like I want to just get past this, but at the same time I know that they will most likely continue to treat individual students in an unfair manner.

Is there any way you can let us all know which college is doing this to you? It would be great to know which colleges do this type of behavior, and which ones don't, that way there would be informed decision making available for people who want to get degrees in nursing. To hide this information seems deceptive to me (I mean generally, not you specifically, almostdonebutwhen.)

We have www.rateyourprofessor.com for picking instructors, but it sure would be nice to have some type of database for colleges, wouldn't it be great to know if your school started with 90 students and only 20 graduated? Or would you rather know if your school started with 90 students and 70 graduated, along with their official pass rate data.

One way that schools can make such a high NCLEX pass rate is for the schools to deny graduation to anyone who might not (in their estimation) pass NCLEX. So, you see if they think that there is any chance of you not passing NCLEX, they can simply fail you, or deny you graduation. I believe that this artificially inflates the college's reported pass rate.

Informed consent. It's not just for consumers of healthcare anymore. It should be for everyone!:twocents:

  • Experts

If it is the school's written policy that your Incomplete should have been made a C instead of an F, you may be able to make some headway there.

However, as for "assuming" that you were okay to sign up for the on-line courses because you hadn't heard back from your advisor; well, you know what they say about assuming ... The school will contend that it was your responsibility to follow up on getting a response from your advisor before you enrolled in the other courses, and I don't see what effective counterargument you could make. Yes, it would be nice if s/he had responded to your question promptly, but the fact that s/he hadn't responded in two weeks doesn't mean the school has to accept those courses if the school's policy says otherwise. If it were me, I wouldn't have spent any time or money on an on-line course unless I had written authorization that the school would definitely accept the course when I completed it.

However "rude" or "condescending" or unresponsive the various school personnnel and officials may have been to you, the question comes down to the school's established, published policies and whether the school has followed them. I don't see anything in your OP that suggests you've been "targeted" or treated "unfairly" -- you were told that you had to have permission in advance to have on-line courses accepted, and you took the courses without having received permission in advance. Basically, I don't see what argument you have to make beside just asking the school to please, please make an exception in your case, and what is the rationale for that? The fact that they are even willing to meet with you and review the course descriptions sounds like they are willing to try to work with you, though.

Best wishes. I hope you and the school will be able to work something out.

Sorry to say, vut Elkpark has it right. I am a faculty member, and though it totally stinks that no one got back to you, it was still your responsibility to ensure the credits would transfer prior to taking the class. Where I work, students must first go through the registrar to see if the university will transfer the course as equal and with the same or more credits required and then it goes to the college.

Hopefully you have had good grades in the past and the meeting is a sign that they will let you buy on this small offence, but unfortunately if they want to stick to their guns about this, they are correct in doing so and it is unlikely any course of action further would come out on your behalf. What does your student handbook have to say about this type of thing? If you didn't completely and correctly follow the order of action in the student handbook (including getting written permission, if that is what the case may be), you haven't got much to stand on.

I am so sorry such a thing has happened. Hopefully it will clear up quickly. Please update us.

  • Author

The school is Temple University. I didn't want to write the name because I feel the school has positive things going for it. It has a lot of diversity, and you get a pretty good clinical experience (more than I would have if I chose a nursing school in the suburbs- and there are some excellent professors). However it is extremely unorganized, and left foot never seems to know what the right foot is doing. Before registering for the classes, I checked there accredition, and course descriptions, and contacted my advisor. How am I suppose to get written consent when they don't respond? Temple is a rare university in that they only require you to have 30 credits from there school in order to qualify for graduation. I had about 60 credits, so I didn't see this being a problem. The nursing program at Temple has a unique advising center. Instead of having advisors who have received former education in that field, we have nursing professors who don't really seem to have a clue. I contacted them numerous times and they would only respond in vague terms or not reply to me at all. They are only willing to meet with me after they flat out rejected accepting the credits. Though I am hoping they make an exception when they meet with me, and except my credits. I believe I took all the steps I needed to take, and met all the requirements required to receive a degree. My GPA is 3.0, and I have already taken my boards so I don't believe this is the issue.

  • Experts
The school is Temple University. I didn't want to write the name because I feel the school has positive things going for it. It has a lot of diversity, and you get a pretty good clinical experience (more than I would have if I chose a nursing school in the suburbs- and there are some excellent professors). However it is extremely unorganized, and left foot never seems to know what the right foot is doing. Before registering for the classes, I checked there accredition, and course descriptions, and contacted my advisor. How am I suppose to get written consent when they don't respond? Temple is a rare university in that they only require you to have 30 credits from there school in order to qualify for graduation. I had about 60 credits, so I didn't see this being a problem. The nursing program at Temple has a unique advising center. Instead of having advisors who have received former education in that field, we have nursing professors who don't really seem to have a clue. I contacted them numerous times and they would only respond in vague terms or not reply to me at all. They are only willing to meet with me after they flat out rejected accepting the credits. Though I am hoping they make an exception when they meet with me, and except my credits. I believe I took all the steps I needed to take, and met all the requirements required to receive a degree. My GPA is 3.0, and I have already taken my boards so I don't believe this is the issue.

In both programs in which I've taught (one ADN and one BSN), the nursing students' advisors were nursing faculty who were not specially trained as "advisors." When I was in school, my faculty advisors were faculty, not specially-trained "advisors." I believe that's more the norm than the exception, and advising students is considered a standard component of a nursing faculty position.

I don't understand your statement that you "believe I took all the steps I needed to take, and met all the requirements required to receive a degree." You were told you needed advance permission for on-line courses to be accepted, and you didn't get advance permission. I'm not trying to be cruel or argumentative, but that seems pretty clear-cut to me. I'm not sure what other interpretation could be applied. "How am I suppose to get written consent when they don't respond?" -- Well, you keep bugging the professor; you go "camp out" at her/his office until you get a response; you don't interpret the lack of an immediate response as meaning that you can go ahead and do what you want ... The outcome matters a lot more to you than it does to the professor, so you put the extra energy into getting your needs met and making sure everything's being done "by the book." If this is the only time in your college career that you've had trouble and delay in getting what you needed from a faculty member or administrator, you've been very lucky, and the school is much better organized and more smoothly run than you give them credit for! :)

Again, I hope you'll be able to manage a positive outcome, but, if you do, it will simply be the school bending the rules and making an exception in your case; not that you were right and the school was wrong.

When you say you've already "taken my boards," you don't mean the NCLEX, do you?

Most universities have rules that the last 30 credits have to be taken "in residence". Your student handbook should contain information on the school's policies. I had a few classmates who ran into situations where they still needed a course or two when they thought that they were ready to graduate. This is why, though advisors can be helpful, the student is ultimately responsible for making sure that all courses are completed according to the university's requirements. Unless you obtained written permission from the school to take the courses elsewhere, I doubt that you will have a legal leg to stand on. My advice is to just take the classes in the fall- you will be done before you know it. Good luck to you.

If you have taken the NCLEX already (and weren't in an RN to BSN program), I would find that very strange. To be able to take the NCLEX, the BON has to be sent a letter from the graduating university basically stating that you have fully completed all courses with a passing grade and have a nursing degree. Which, according to you the school won't let you graduate. Very strange.

Yes, at every nursing school I have either attended or taught at (and this includes 5 major universities), faculty are the advisors. It is their job, and you do receive some training. But honestly, not much is needed. Everyone has the student handbook, with all of the rules nicely laid out. But again, it is still the student's ultimate responsibility to make sure they have done what they are supposed to. Which means it is your responsibility to contact your advisor. Who is to say she received your first e-mail? There are times, when our e-mail system crashes and I lose all of my inbox, or it will transfer a student e-mail into my junk e-mail account. Odd things happen all of the time. Either way, you didn't get a response, so you should have taken the next step to contact her again, not "assume."

I'm sorry to be harsh, but I'm being truthful. I hope everything works out well for you in the end.

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