Time for some introspective criticism perhaps?

Guest717236 · Feb 3, 2011

And that's not my fault. It's a management failure.

And if you do not protect your patients by working together for their safety while you address management as a team about staffing ratios,

your patients are the ones affected by lack of appropriate staffing.

And if you want that risk to your license, you will stand alone. Management will fail to back you up if it is your patient/patients involved in an unsafe incident.

rkitty198, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2011

I am sick of listening to my co-worker complain about how she purchased a set of pots and pans for $1500.00, how she spends $400.00 a month on cigarettes, how she spent $100.00 on alcohol at the bar in one night....how she cannot afford to pay her bills and gets sent to collections.

She only works 32 hours a week, no kiddos

I wish she would shut-up and work some overtime so I dont have to listen to her financial woes. That would help our unit twofold :) heheheh

I used to work overtime (50+) hours a week before I had the baby. If you have a problem working overtime, blame management for being so cheap. They are so stupid not to see that if they hired another nurse as regular staff they would save a fortune!

There is a sign up on the wall by the time clock that says "if you have money saving ideas tell me so we can help our unit be more cost effective!" What a joke that is!

Fribblet · Feb 3, 2011

And if you do not protect your patients by working together for their safety while you address management as a team about staffing ratios,
your patients are the ones affected by lack of appropriate staffing.
And if you want that risk to your license, you will stand alone. Management will fail to back you up if it is your patient/patients involved in an unsafe incident.

Declining the offer to work on my day off poses no risk to my license.

Guest717236 · Feb 3, 2011

Declining the offer to work on my day off poses no risk to my license.

Nice try changing my reply. You know I meant that working short staff while you are on duty

is a risk to your license. Only you and your colleagues can decide if it is worth the risk...

and you never address patient safety,and again management will not back you up when things go wrong.

Fribblet · Feb 3, 2011

Nice try changing my reply. You know I meant that working short staff while you are on duty
is a risk to your license. Only you and your colleagues can decide if it is worth the risk...
and you never address patient safety,and again management will not back you up when things go wrong.

This entire conversation has been about working when one is scheduled to be off work.

If one is working and staffing levels are grossly unsafe, there are proper channels to protect your license. If they are consistently grossly unsafe, there are ways to report your employer for unsafe conditions, and, ultimately, there are other places to work at. If I felt my license was at risk every time I went to work, I wouldn't be picking up overtime, I'd be turning in my resignation.

This is a failure of management, not a failure of the nurse. And, of course management won't back you up, they're the reason in this scenario things have gone wrong.

Picking up little to no overtime does not endanger my license. Picking up lots of over time only coddles management and prevents change from happening, in addition to wearing a nurse down completely. It's not safe to work exhausted. THAT will definitely put your license at risk,

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 3, 2011

If there is an ocassional, acute shortage of staff due to factors that management cannot control, then I feel it is everyone's job to try to pitch in and help out. If everyone helps out a little, no one should have to be over-burdened or "work themselves to death."

However, if there is a chronic shortage of staff ... then the situation is being poorly managed. In such cases of poor management, I don't feel it is in the best interest of the staff or the patients to support the continued use of failing management strategies. Staff should not be "enablers" who support the practices that are allowing the problems to continue.

The longer I am in nursing, the more strongly I feel about this issue. Not all "shortage situations" are the same and we need to alter our approach depending on the situation. We should "take one for the team" every once in a while ... but no one should have to "take one for the team" on a regular basis.

We're nurses. We should understand the difference between and acute problem and a chronic one.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Feb 4, 2011

Okay....Eriksoln I read your post and the first thing that came to my mind was this was written by a man (and I am sure I will get flamed for saying that!). Here it goes........I have two children for which I must arrange child care, cook all meals and make lunches, do laundry, take to sporting activities and help with all homework. I volunteer at the school when I can and clean the house, maintain the lawn and pay the bills, arrange doctors appointments and any other thing that needs to be done.
I could go on for days about the things that I am responsible for OUTSIDE of work. I don't know your situation but I committed to work three days a week and that is what I can give. Back in the day, before kids, I loved over-time......not so much anymore!
In my last postition we had a handful of guys working in the unit...they were all second career nurses. One had been a landscaper, one had been a carpenter and so on and so forth. They all talked about how easy three shifts a week is compared to their previous jobs. They always joked about the female nurses saying "they complain about everything, they don't know how easy this job is." One day an older nurse I work with said......."I think you might find this job easy because when you go home your job is done, when most of these women go home their job is just beginning." Of course she put a few choice words in there as well.
Don't worry about what others are doing......if you want to do OT, do it......you can't know what other peoples situations are.

I'm going to stay focused on the thread topic and let the obviously offensive insinuations go, for now anyway. I wish you the best of luck in that part of your life and hope things get better for you.

OK, back to topic.

See, I'm not suggesting anyone who is not in a position to should come in. Again, like a said a few posts back, I am saying "a little flexibility goes a long way". I'm not saying well all of a sudden have to become married to our jobs. If switching from doing a Monday instead of Wed. is all you can do once in a great while............there it is.

No one is asking anyone to be Superman. I'll be the first to say, these past two weeks have made me feel like toast that got burnt.........then got put back in the toaster for a second round. But, hey, I'm in a position that I can play Superman like that from time to time. There may come a time when I can't, and I won't. I'm hoping to save up the down payment for a house this year so.........eh, I'm in a "Do all the OT you can" mode. Other people have things that limit their ability to be flexible. No problem.

What I do have a problem with is when people could help and choose not to just to snipe at management. How does that make any sense? Thats...........juvenile, to say the least. "Mommy won't give me what I want, so I'll show her, I'll punch my brother." Very professional there. :yeah: (sarcasm)

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Feb 4, 2011

In LTC if you pull any extra shifts, you become the only person they call to fill shifts.
It is a laziness issue on the part of management and scheduling.
There are nursing mangement and voluntary on-call nurses being paid to be on call and come in but most won't if they can get a sucker to say yes.
Behind the name and before some inflated title is RN and they can work the floor just the same as I can the LPN.
Nursing management in LTC needs to lose the attitude that they are above floor work and actually manage a scheduling situation.
There may still be some LTC DON/ADONs that do work the floor but I haven't seen one in years.
So, no I don't do OT/extra shifts unless I need the money. I am in fact not the only nurse on the schedule and I am not being paid to be on-call.
After 18 years, I am not continuing to be played like a fool. I have a life just as the other nurses and management. So, I rotate my taking an extra shift that way I do help but I don't become the only one and others realize they can too.

I've actually been caught up in this before too. It was at my first nursing job ever. I'm......talkative and blunt by nature. So, I walked around talking about how "If the favor doesn't get returned to me once in awhile, maybe I should be more like you guys and just work w/e I feel like." A few nurses agreed with me and............yes, I know, its not a good thing........we formed a little click of people who helped one another out on the schedule.

Being flexible, you'll find it does come back to you more than you think. There have been times where they call someone to come in and no one answers. I'll get out my cell, call someone myself (someone I have the number of from personal use) and tell'em "hey, I dont wanna have 10 pts tonight. You not coming in cause you don't want to or cause you can't?"

After hearing the one who has saved them from being in a bind is now the one in need of help, they sometimes decide to come in (unless they really weren't coming in because they couldn't, of course).

I'm say, erase all this mumbo jumbo and just.........be a little more flexible, be more of a team (no clicks) and things could improve for everyone.

Picture: A very large stone that has to be pushed a few feet. If the whole unit does it, it gets done with minimal effort from each individual. If only half the unit does it, each individual must spend twice the effort to get the desired result. If only a few people are doing it........................yeah, you get the picture.

perfectbluebuildings, BSN, RN · Feb 4, 2011

Being flexible, you'll find it does come back to you more than you think. There have been times where they call someone to come in and no one answers. I'll get out my cell, call someone myself (someone I have the number of from personal use) and tell'em "hey, I dont wanna have 10 pts tonight. You not coming in cause you don't want to or cause you can't?"
After hearing the one who has saved them from being in a bind is now the one in need of help, they sometimes decide to come in (unless they really weren't coming in because they couldn't, of course).
I'm say, erase all this mumbo jumbo and just.........be a little more flexible, be more of a team (no clicks) and things could improve for everyone.
Picture: A very large stone that has to be pushed a few feet. If the whole unit does it, it gets done with minimal effort from each individual. If only half the unit does it, each individual must spend twice the effort to get the desired result. If only a few people are doing it........................yeah, you get the picture.

I will say, I can't stand when people do the above (call from a personal cell phone to try to get people to come in.) I never do that when I'm in charge or working. If I said I couldn't come in, there's a reason and I don't need to be hassled about it. It puts people in an awkward position if they are exhausted or whatever, or maybe not a prior commitment but just too tired or something else they don't feel like sharing with someone, but here is their friend asking them to do it. To me, it's kind of taking advantage of the fact that you have their number for outside reasons than work. But I do agree with being flexible and doing what you can within reason to help your unit out.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Feb 4, 2011

this. what other profession expects you to come in on your days off and work like the dog you do when you're actually scheduled? yeah, i am going to do that to myself. i feel awful for my co-workers when i know they are short but i work my butt off on my three 12s (which often morph into 14s), never report off, always pitch in to the point that i myself am often behind and generally try to bring a positive attitude to the proceedings. i occasionally stay for ot but i never pick up and i don't feel guilty. if there is someone at whom ire should be directed, it is the person(s) who staff at a bare minimum to the point that one report-off throws the whole hospital into a tizzy. just my

by agreeing to so much overtime, a nurse is not helping the issue or other nurses. the issue is with management and their lack of planning and staffing. by agreeing to come in on our days off, we are only encouraging them to keep understaffing because they know someone will always be there to take the shift. i feel for you, but you are allowing the cycle to continue by picking up those extra shifts and working understaffed. if all the nurses could stick together and say, "um...no", that would force management to rethink their scheduling.
patient safety and care are being compromised anyway when there is not enough staff, so not agreeing to an extra shift isn't going to tip the scale.

if there always is a nurse to cover via last minute calls to homes of rns, instead of preplanned methods like float pool, then management won't make any change. volunteering to work is nice but it does not change anything in the long run. its not that i don't think nurses should do something, i just disagree with the method of putting more pressure on coworkers to pick up shifts, because its not merely rare staffing issues here and there from rare bad snow days or mass illness(everyone should pitch in on rare extenuating circumstances), it is an issue all the time, and really, the issue stems from management not scheduling nurses to work in the first place in anticipation of common, common staffing issues.
i would instead recommend going to the manager with the suggestions of internal changes like creating a float pool department etc, or do something like joining the cna/nnoc and work with them to prevent the problem from happening in the first place. i have given my money to the cna cause because they are enacting legally mandated changes to help this exact problem. professionalism is working to enact permanent change - fixing the cause instead of merely reacting to the symptoms.

we have big time staffing issues on our floor. our manager is "working on it". she's been "working on it" for a long time.
what gets me about staffing is, why is it our responsibility? we have a manager, we have a staffing office, our house managers know our situation, and still, we are understaffed. staffing office will tell the charge nurse "we don't have anyone to give you. start making phone calls." so the already over-worked charge nurse has to walk away from her 6-7 patients and spend the next hour trying to find a nurse to come in and work extra, (and no one answers their phone anymore, including me. we're all too tired and frustrated to work any more than we are already scheduled). shouldn't this be someone else's responsibility?
anyway, to the op, sure it is nice to help out your coworkers in a pinch, but when it is everyday, there are more serious problems that need to be addressed - and that is not the nurse's responsibility, imho.

i applaud your dedication to your work and your patients, but you said it yourself, it is coming at a high cost to you. nurses who don't work overtime are looking out for themselves and i am one of them. i think if you pitch in in an emergency that is one thing, but it seems every day is an emergency. i get put on call for scheduled shifts (when census is low) which eats up my vacation time, then they might call me the next night, when i have plans. i think that when staff pitch in often they are enabling poor management practices. management is using you up because it is so much easier to just appeal to you to cover a shift than deal with the long term management of hiring and retaining staff. i admire you for your dedication, but please dont' criticize other staff members who are putting themselves first before a large corporation who probably doesn't care about your sleep, health, or relationships. being lazy is one thing. i have even gone part time (2x12) because i needed some time to recharge. now, i'm so much more productive, happy, and engaged at work. don't feel guilty to say "no" to overtime. it's one thing if you want the work and need the money, but otherwise stay home.

eriksohn, i have great respect for you and you sound like someone i would love to work with, but if you don't feel like your "team" is working as a team to keep your unit running smoothly, then you probably need to look at moving to another team.
i completely agree with all the above posters that picking up overtime even when it is detrimental to you just to keep your unit running smoothly will only keep management from making the changes they need to make. i was once in this position and picked up overtime till i was totally wrecked. i was the darling of the unit as far as management went. then when the recession hit. i was let go like a hot potato. so i learned that you pick up when it benefits you, and when it doesn't then you let management worry about it and just enjoy your day off. we nurses need to stop enabling management and all their poor decisions. i have worked in both types of units, with people who never did their fair share, and units with totally dedicated people who always helped out no matter what. fortunately right now i am working in a unit with very mature, grown up staff and there are very few issues. take care of yourself and good luck

ok, i quoted enought people to make my point.

the epic flaw to the "its management's problem" argument is that....................no, its not. its your problem. instead of looking from the angle of defending the days you call off or can't come in...........look at if from the angle of when you are at work. short staffed, no one answers their phone. you are already over ratio, people screaming and hollering for a nurse cause they have gone hours without seeing anyone and no help on the way. they still admit more people, they still pull your aid to sit on another unit and they still expect you to be done on time. sounds like its your problem to me. i don't see management, admin., supervisors, hr...............no one else in this scene..........feeling the bite of being short staffed.

thats my point. and, unfortunately, when we decide not to do something about it, and the whole situation runs away from us to the point where care is compromised, it also becomes our patients problem. now, idk, i've been nursing five years and i have become a little harder/more bitter/less sensitive than when i came in but...............that still bothers me.

no other dept. (except maybe the cnas) feels the sting of short staffing like we do. at the end of the day.........every other dept. pretty much goes home in the same mood and at the same time regardless of what staffing was like.

take our radiology dept. for example. one day......yeah, they had no evening tech coming in. know what they did...............i know you have seen this too................they took less patients. did only the stats while short handed, and they even took longer than they should have. we nurses don't have this option.

its very important too that i clarify a few things about "being flexible". seems the suggestion that working like a team and helping out when we can has brought out a lot of defensiveness.....................:uhoh3:guilty conscious anyone?

i'm not, by any means, saying live like i do. that's be shallow and short self centered to think everyone can just commit to helping the unit any time it is needed. and......to boot, i have my own agenda to do so (saving for a house) so i have extra motivation. i'm just saying.............overall, a better team approach and helping out when we can will only prove to make things better for..................yes, the one's who feel the bite of being short.................us. its really not as complicated as you are making it, its really not.

in short, if you are refusing to come in and help because your on on a crusade to "teach management"..............you lose. they aren't hearing the message. trust me, they walk away from it with a completely different lesson than the one you are trying to throw at em. shame on you for not helping your coworkers so you can indulge in selfish fantasy crusades. if you can't come in...........for "real" reasons.........eh, no one is going to bash you for having a life.

guest64485 · Feb 4, 2011

ok, i quoted enought people to make my point.
the epic flaw to the "its management's problem" argument is that....................no, its not. its your problem.

we may all be talking about different things here than you.... so just to clarify, eriksoln, are you advocating that a.) staff should pitch in and come on their day off during rare occurrences of great need, or, are you saying that b.) staff should make a big effort to come in every time when they are routinely called to come in on their day off?

those are two very different things, so some clarity would be appreciated on which you are referring to. no one disagrees with a, but if it is b you are promoting, then i'll have more to say in response.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Feb 4, 2011

We may all be talking about different things here than you.... so just to clarify, eriksoln, are you advocating that A.) staff should pitch in and come on their day off during rare occurrences of great need, or, are you saying that B.) staff should make a big effort to come in every time when they are routinely called to come in on their day off?
Those are two very different things, so some clarity would be appreciated on which you are referring to.

OMG...............really? :eek:

LOL. OK, I'll play along. Its kinda like my cats. If you put them on your lap to be petted, they leave. Then they come back a couple minutes later. Why? Cause they like it to have been their decision to be there, not yours.

I am saying "A". If you can only help out once every couple months........so be it, thats what you can do. You might/probably bring other things than flexibility to the table too.

If you can come in once or twice a month to help..........cool. Love ya. I'll break my back trading days with ya when you want off cause I know you'll save me from a bad night sometime down the road.

If you are like me and.........well, then I'd say get a life, but hey, we all need someone on the unit who is flexible.

Point is, just a little bit from everyone will move the boulder closer to where WE AS NURSES want it. The only thing I am against is not coming in at all EVER.......when you could.......just cause it gives you some juvenile "Ha ha, I thumbed my nose at management" warm and fuzzy feeling.