Thoughts on vegetarian/ vegan diet

OldDude · Feb 25, 2019

13 hours ago, Wuzzie said:
Because we are given a rudimentary class in nutrition and are by no means experts in that arena. It would be folly for us to take this on when there ARE experts readily available. Furthermore it is not our place to suggest particular diets beyond general recommendations because WE believe they are healthier. This was the premise in the original post. Vegan/vegetarianism requires a great deal of knowledge to safely follow and the requirements vary patient to patient. I don’t believe a Google search is an acceptable substitute for the knowledge of an educated and registered dietician. It is utter hubris to think otherwise.

My Sweet Petunia is a Physical Therapist. I often tease her about PT is just making people exercise stuff they don't want to because I think I have a basic knowledge of what she does. Then she starts talking to me about bio mechanics, gait patterns, innervation, transfer assessments, and some other terms I'm completely clueless about and I feel like an idiot and shut up...Dietary recommendations should come from the experts...Dietitians.

ruby_jane, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2019

Someone just asked me "what is a carb?"

I gave them the knowledge that I had, which is tiny, and then a referral. As has been pointed out, education is different than opinion and recommendation, but most laypeople will take what I have to say as a recommendation which I am not qualified to give....

OldDude · Feb 25, 2019

5 minutes ago, ruby_jane said:
Someone just asked me "what is a carb?"
I gave them the knowledge that I had, which is tiny, and then a referral. As has been pointed out, education is different than opinion and recommendation, but most laypeople will take what I have to say as a recommendation which I am not qualified to give....

That's an easy one!! A carb is a short description for carburetor... a device that delivers a mixture of gasoline and air to the cylinders of internal combustion engines...but, but, what does that have to do with diet? Exactly.

Emergent, RN · Feb 25, 2019

Carbs are the greatest dietary evil known to mankind. This year.

ch105 · Mar 2, 2019

Yeah I agree to not push a vegan diet on younger women, especially if they are suffering from an eating disorder. As healthy as it may be, they usually take it to extremes.

I'm over here laughing at the person who thinks someone snapped their trochanter bc of a vegan diet. That's hilarious. Comments like those remind me of how poorly educated about nutrition many people in healthcare are.

Being vegan & vegetarian does not mean they are healthier though. I would say the vast majority are & on rare occasions you find those who are living off of amy's mac & cheese, pizza, & beyond burgers. With any diet, anything in excess is typically unhealthy. You usually never have to worry about vegans though as their immune system is typically better & their cholesterol is NEVER an issue.

Try to educate yourself on the positives & the negatives of it. I left dairy for 3 months & the day an employee at starbucks gave me a cow's milk instead of almond milk, I nearly died after spending hours in the bathroom. Makes you wonder how harmful it is if just a bit of time without it makes you intolerant to it & causes such a severe reaction.

ch105 · Mar 2, 2019

On 2/21/2019 at 1:20 PM, BedsideNurse said:
Vegans have lower BMI's; less than 10% are obese, and they have a 60% less chance of developing type 2 diabetes....Just as a weight a control mechanism it should be encouraged.
But a vegan diet does more than keep people thinner. It stops coronary artery disease from progressing and in some patients can reverse narrowing and improve blood flow of the coronary vessels. This has been proven with before and after cath lab and CT imaging. Vegans also have lower blood pressure. Reducing obesity, diabetes, and blood pressure reduces stroke risk and peripheral artery disease.
Other benefits include a healthier gut microbiome, less diverticular disease and less constipation.
A lot to consider, but looking at the epidemic of obesity and diabetes that is ravaging this country, the disability and death rates of CVA, and that heart disease is our #1 killer, medical schools are remiss for not teaching that a low fat whole foods plant based diet is what people should be following.
Now, obviously you can be vegan drinking beer and eating butterscotch candies. I am talking about mindful eating of healthy food with sufficient calories.
All that being said, since I work in a revolving door MICU, much of what we do is procedures and pills, patch work and acute symptom management. When patients can take po we send them what looks like what you'd eat if you had a frozen dinner from the grocery store in 1972, except probably even less palatable. ? When dietary conversations arise at work I do try to encourage my patients to decrease saturated fat, especially saturated animal fat, and to eat more nutrient dense, high fiber plant based foods. If they've never eaten fruits or vegetables and can't stand the taste or texture we talk about finding smoothies they like, maybe pureed bean and vegetable soups, or how to sneak in a little extra nutrition in their spaghetti sauce and pasta, for example, by adding vegetables and finding spices they enjoy. I also encourage markedly decreasing processed foods, watching their salt, and choosing whole grain options vs. highly refined foods. This kind of discussion is pretty rare, though, maybe a few sentences about it a few times a month, if that.
Tragically health care does an absolutely *horrible* job in preventing disease through healthy eating. There are a few glimmers of hope though; there are more cardiologists getting on board, and there is a little more interest in "lifestyle" medicine (which generally includes promotion of a lower fat WFPB diet) amongst internal medicine, pediatric, and family practice docs. Also, Medicare has approved reimbursement for The Ornish Reversal Program, which is an intensive cardiac rehab program that solely focuses on diet and lifestyle changes, and Kaiser Permanente is now working with physicians to encourage plant based eating.
I am sure most of us would rather no diagnosis vs "early" detection of illness. We need to start promoting health. Once doctors get paid for patients getting healthy, that's when we will see real primary prevention being taught and practiced.
Just my two cents. Don't want to start a war. ?

I can tell you have done your research. There are so many health benefits & I really wish I could give up animal products but I feel as if i'm literally addicted after learning about casomorphins. Are you plant-based? I've been trying for a while to just quit but after a few days I give in. Lots of diseases run in my family & I also feel REALLY bad about eating them. I'm just trying to eat more ethically & one day tell my family that I actually tried to do something about the planet & their home instead of just passing on the responsibility to them. I've done a lot of research & found that humans really haven't been eating meat for that much time so there aren't any risks to a plant-based diet as evolutionary biology hasn't affected us humans much. I would greatly appreciate the tips. I also noticed being more energized after doing it for a while & would like to continue to feel that way.

LockportRN · Apr 14, 2019

On 2/22/2019 at 8:13 PM, RobbiRN said:
I strongly believe we are honor bound to teach, or remind, patients of the benefits of a healthy lifestyle including a proper diet, sensible exercise, and adequate sleep. These are the foundation of good health. Many patients could eliminate most of their medications with better lifestyle choices. I "preach" lifestyle all day every day. I look them in the eye and say it with passion because their life may well depend on getting the basics right. They know I care and appreciate the effort.
As I stated in my first post here, not eating meat does not make a person healthy. I feel no need to preach a vegetarian lifestyle. I never start the argument, but I will gladly defend myself when I'm teased about my choice to eat a big bag of fresh greens and carrots and a garden burger. ("That's not food. That's what FOOD eats.")

Lol, my daughter is 'mostly' a vegetarian for the past 6 years, coming from a big meat eating family and we tease her with this all the time ?. Thankfully, she takes it easily and gives back just as good as she gets!

nets5010 · Jun 14, 2019

Hi, I am a registered dietitian (working my way into nursing school) and it is against our code of ethics to provide specialized dietary information without holding RD credentials. It is ok to give general, healthful information like eat 5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day, choose lean proteins, etc. But giving heart health diet advice to a cardiac patient or telling a patient to go vegan is definitely specialized dietary advice that should only come from a dietitian. I used to have patients tell me that their nurse told them do the ketogenic diet or do a juice cleanse, etc and this was very frustrating because nurses usually held higher power over us dietitians, but did not always have correct information to give. Anyways, if nurses and other healthcare workers were as well versed as RDs in nutrition, then dietitians would be out of a job ?

Thefourofus · Jun 14, 2019

Thankfully I live in a state that fought back against the AND. It's bad enough that Nutritionist have to now also be indoctrinated by the commercialized form of dietetics that support sugar laden and pizza diets.

I do support the idea that one should not give nutritional advice if they don't have a signification education in nutrition. There's a lot I don't know, and for that I would refer to the appropriate person, but because one has been trained to run a hospital dietary department doesn't mean that one is the proper person to discuss nutrition with a client.

FYI: If anyone is interested they may want to check out the specialty of Life Style Medicine. Its evidence based.

nets5010 · Jun 17, 2019

On 6/14/2019 at 4:39 PM, Thefourofus said:
Thankfully I live in a state that fought back against the AND. It's bad enough that Nutritionist have to now also be indoctrinated by the commercialized form of dietetics that support sugar laden and pizza diets.

I do support the idea that one should not give nutritional advice if they don't have a signification education in nutrition. There's a lot I don't know, and for that I would refer to the appropriate person, but because one has been trained to run a hospital dietary department doesn't mean that one is the proper person to discuss nutrition with a client.

FYI: If anyone is interested they may want to check out the specialty of Life Style Medicine. Its evidence based.

I think you are mistaken on the role of a clinical dietitian. I have a 4-year bachelor's degree in nutrition and 2 of those years were pure medical nutrition therapy courses where we learned the dietary management of possibly every disease you could think of. We may have had one class on food service management, or "running the dietary department," but that is a completely different position within the hospital. Registered dietitians are more than qualified to provide nutrition advice to a patient. We also write and manage tube feedings and TPNs.

I have not once in my entire career recommended pizza or processed sugar to a patient. In fact, I regularly teach a modified plant based diet to my patients (modified in the sense that it allows lean animal sources in moderation if they want). It sounds like you have come into contact with some poor dietitians and I am sorry about that. We are not all like that though ?