The New Homeless on NBC's Dateline 7/4/03 @ 8PM (EDT)

NICU_Nurse, BSN, RN · Jul 14, 2003

This thread is a relevant and timely one, so, please, let's not derail it with flaming or personal criticisms.

Thank you! :)

colleen10 · Jul 14, 2003

A couple things.

I have some real issues with the article that CseMgr1 posted.

And I don't mean I have problems with CseMgr1, but more with the explainations that the article gave for low employment right now. Maybe I am too into "conspiracy theories" or just plain don't trust the government, but in a lot of ways I think that article is just a crock of bull.

While I don't doubt that increased productivity leaves many workers and unemployed out in the cold, I think that is a pretty lame excuse for why these people can't find jobs. It is probably true in some circumstances that it is the #1 reason people are displaced and can't find other work, but it certainly isn't the main reason.

The last position I held was in Information Technology. Our company sold services to all types of business so that they could "computerize" their companies/systems so that they could increase productivity and rely much less on actual people to do the work. Our business, and IT in general, started to go downhill back in December of 2000 and it has not recovered. The company I worked for was downsized a total of 3/4 since Dec. 2000. I know for a fact, that the IT company I worked for wasn't the only one that was hit this hard.

Now, if so many other companies out there are increasing productivity, etc. they can't do it by themselves and many will have to turn to the IT industry for assistance. But, it's obvious that they haven't or else there would be a lot of IT business still out there. Same goes for Consulting companies like your Big 5 or is it Big 6 now. A lot of their business is consulting companies to stream line, yet, a lot of these "consulting" businesses have been hard hit too. And I don't think it's because work done by IT and consulting companies 4-5 years ago is just now coming to fruition.

Also, expecting the "leisure industry" to "pick up" and fill the void is expecting an awful lot. While increased productivity can lead to cheaper prices for goods and services, you still have all those displaced workers who will not be finding jobs and will not be spending money on leisure activities.

On another note, TinyNurse;

You should be very proud of your accomplishments, no doubt you have worked very hard and someday soon will be able to provide for yourself, get off Govt. assistance and become a person that can give back to society and help someone else out that was once in your shoes.

As for the topic at hand, I don't want to place a ton of blame on the parents but when you see that she delivered in a hospital and the list of relatives you do have to wonder why no one helped these people at all. Where else did they go to get help, and get denied, before it got to this point?

geekgolightly, BSN, RN · Jul 14, 2003

Originally posted by MishlB
You can call me catty, but give me a break. She was so poor she didn't have gas, but she sure had plenty of money to have tattoos and piercings done? She was able to get student loans, grants, AND have her NCLEX paid for...I don't think this situation even compares to being homeless. Poor baby, is your cable turned on yet....

may i never have to rely on you for anything, especially your nursing skills, in my life.

tinynurse, im so PROUD of you.

MishlB · Jul 15, 2003

Originally posted by geekgolightly
may i never have to rely on you for anything, especially your nursing skills, in my life.

tinynurse, im so PROUD of you.

You dont know diddly about my skills. For someone to complain about not having cable in a homeless thread makes me sick. Let's stick to the real issue...those who DO NOT receive food stamps and govt housing so they can go to nursing school.

Please don't be confused Tinynurse, this is not about being on assistance...believe me...

jadednurse · Jul 15, 2003

Originally posted by roxannekkb
With this long list of relatives, why was this family homeless? Could no one offer shelter to them? Help them in any way? I don't know what the finances are of their relatives, but surely, would a grandma want her grandson living on the street and starving to death?

It does seem that there is a lot of information missing, but then, I find that often in news stories. Or you read two news stories and the facts are somehow changed. Half a story here and there, but often minus imperative facts.:imbar

Ditto on all of the above.

Empress · Jul 16, 2003

Originally posted by MishlB
You dont know diddly about my skills. For someone to complain about not having cable in a homeless thread makes me sick. Let's stick to the real issue...those who DO NOT receive food stamps and govt housing so they can go to nursing school.
Please don't be confused Tinynurse, this is not about being on assistance...believe me...

Access to asisstance is the issue. Its hard as heck to get assistance, the welfare system has been completely changed, no longer are people able to stay on indefinitely and abuse it as the idea (or myth) was before. I know in Ohio that you can only be on it for a maximum of 5 years, and generally unless extenuating circuimstances 24 mo is the limit. During that time you have to prove you are in school or attend workshops. And it isn't a lot of money, at most $300-400 for a family of 3. In addition, subsidized housing and rent assistance have long waiting lists, on average a year. Food stamps are easier, but without money to pay rent and utilities to keep the food somewhere it doesn't do that much. Charities are absolutely overwhelmed and have lost so much funding over the years. Honestly, I am amazed there isn't more of a homeless problem. It would seem almost impossible for someone who is homeless and has lost all their possessions to be able to pull themself up to being independant using gov't assistance, the strict guidelines and forms needed just to apply could be a major roadblock. I remember reading somewhere homeless families are becomig the majority now, and it scares me.

I find MishlB attitude very judgemental and hurtful. What Tinynurse accomplished is amazing and I find it wonderful that she was able to use gov't assistance to make her and her son's life better, that is the expressed purpose of using gov't assistance. So she has tattos, piercings, whatever, are poor people to justify everything in their life now? She wants cable? Because she uses welfare to get through nursing school she shouldn't want for material things, that being poor she should be grateful for the little given and be quiet? That is rude and degrading to everyone. That attitude is what has caused the current problems our society is struggling with.

Tinynurse, I wish you luck on the NCLEX, and I know you will do well. And it is perfectly normal to be worried, its human. You sound like an amazing person. You're my idol right now : ) I'm in a similar situation and it gives me so much hope to hear your story.

JB CC-RN · Jul 16, 2003

But there for the grace of God go I.

geekgolightly, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2003

Originally posted by MishlB
You dont know diddly about my skills. For someone to complain about not having cable in a homeless thread makes me sick. Let's stick to the real issue...those who DO NOT receive food stamps and govt housing so they can go to nursing school.
Please don't be confused Tinynurse, this is not about being on assistance...believe me...

Actually with what you have posted, I have been able to ascertain what sort of skills you bring with you to work. I can;t say if youa re able to read lab panels, but I am now well aware of your judgement calls concerning social/economic issues. You judge people who may be pierced but come in without money. You judge people who look healthy as does this woman as evidenced by their avatar, yet is forthcoming about what she actually stuggles with on a daily basis.

She can;t pay for cable while in school. it gets turned off and you scoff at her for this? What, do you feel like poor people don;t want to watch television? I don;t have access to television because I can not afford cable. The reception in the middle of downtown houston is so bad that I only receive free fuzz. even with rabbit ears.

She had cable. It was turned off because she could no longer afford the bill. She has piercing and tattoos. You make your judgements based on this information without sourcing out the actual financial situation she is in currently.

You would make a poor nurse, you might well NOW make a poor nurse as youa re so judgemental concerning people's social issues.

Are people on food stamps not supposed to have tattoos? What about having had cable previously? If she chooses to spend her extra thrity dollars a month on cable rather than on a couple movies a month what right is it of yours to judge her for her needing financial assistance? are you suggesting that anyone on financial assistance have NO money each and every month for a movie or a cable bill? Are you asking that they be segregated into a world seperate from all of us culturally?

When I was desperately poor, when I was so poor that I was living on lentils literally, I had internet access. I had a computer from when I was an office worker and one month they gave me a bonus so I used the money on a computer. When I began nursing school, I was not able to work as much. I have no mother, I have no father. I have no brothers sisters aunts uncles grandmothers I have NO ONE. I lived alone. I was broke. I was following my dream. And I had fifteen dollars a month that I could spend on "anything"

FIFTEEN DOLLARS A MONTH was the entertainment budget. I chose to spend it on the internet and forwent cable, as I couldnt afford cable. Maybe if I had 30 instead of 15, i would have picked cable.

Are you saying I didn;t deserve any sympathy for my struggle? That I deserve to be verbally taunted like a playground child on a message board for my choice?

God Knows how I could have done this with a child, as this woman has done.

And you have the GALL to deride her.

This is why I can judge your nursing skills.

MishlB · Jul 16, 2003

Thank you for telling me about myself. Actually, you are totally wrong. I do not judge someone by there socio-economic status, in fact I work in a facility where the majority cannot pay. Doesn't matter to me at all...I too have been in the system, raising a daughter while in nursing school. I had to pay for my boards, even though I was also POOR at the time. I am not judging anyone by piercing and tattoos, but by the complaining about not having cable tv in a discussion about being homeless. I know how much tattoos cost, as I have many. I have read previous posts by this person, and made comments based on what I read. That's it. If she doesn't feel the need to comment to me, then you don't need to comment either. I saw the avatar of a scantily clad nurse, which has been changed now, and I made a comment about it. I felt it was an image that needed to be shed, since we are fighting so hard to be seen as professionals and not as sluts in short dresses. Remeber, just as I have judged, so have you. Are you through now?

geekgolightly, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2003

Originally posted by MishlB
So how did you pay for all the tattoos and piercings? The avatar you chose is interesting. And we wonder why nursing has a bad image? I guess there are a few out there who keep the image going. And you wouldn't have to pray about passing your boards if you had attended class. I am so glad you are a new nurse, so you can have your cable turned on.

x

geekgolightly, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2003

Originally posted by MishlB
You can call me catty, but give me a break. She was so poor she didn't have gas, but she sure had plenty of money to have tattoos and piercings done? She was able to get student loans, grants, AND have her NCLEX paid for...I don't think this situation even compares to being homeless. Poor baby, is your cable turned on yet....

x

this attitude says plenty about you.

most people are one step away from the situation that the atlanta couple found themselves in. i think at times, tiny nuse and myself were a half step away. and you come down on her in this thread like nothing ive ever seen. like i said, just please, let me never have to rely on you when i need help.

geekgolightly, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2003

Originally posted by MishlB
Thank you for telling me about myself. Actually, you are totally wrong. I do not judge someone by there socio-economic status, in fact I work in a facility where the majority cannot pay. Doesn't matter to me at all...I too have been in the system, raising a daughter while in nursing school. I had to pay for my boards, even though I was also POOR at the time. I am not judging anyone by piercing and tattoos, but by the complaining about not having cable tv in a discussion about being homeless. I know how much tattoos cost, as I have many. I have read previous posts by this person, and made comments based on what I read. That's it. If she doesn't feel the need to comment to me, then you don't need to comment either. I saw the avatar of a scantily clad nurse, which has been changed now, and I made a comment about it. I felt it was an image that needed to be shed, since we are fighting so hard to be seen as professionals and not as sluts in short dresses. Remeber, just as I have judged, so have you. Are you through now?

no, i am not through now.

I feel the need to comment because your words hurt ME. If she is stronger, then I commend her even more. Your judgemental attidute stung me and I am sure some other people on this board.

She never complained, she made a statement that her cable was turned off. So she wasn;t able to see the program. I have made a statement similar to that in other threads such as "while I dont have television, i have read the transcript...," i am used to not having television as I havent had it in years, i assume this recently happened to her so its fresher on her mind, but i didnt see her declaritive statement as a "complaint" its a fact.

i am not telling you baout yourself, i am telling you what i see. there is a difference. and on this board with those attacks geared towards tinynurse, you have shown a side of humanity that i do not want to see in nursing. i know that we are not supposed to be professional at all times, but when i see someone who spouts judgements like this against a girl who was hsaring so openly her struggle, i have to wonder what kind of person you are on the job. frankly, if i were a patient of yours, i would be scared to reveal too much about myself to you, for fear that you would belittle me. you have been harsh with this woman. if you choose not to see it that way, so be it. but i see it and i think others so too, as they have pointed out as much.

every person needs to live their life as they see fit. you see fit to trash someone on this baord who was sharing her plight, i choose to call you on it. it's done. either accept that you may have been too ahrsh on someone who has so obviously struggled, or don;t.

now, i am through. thank you.