"The Jesus Factor"

[FireStarterRN]

A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

[LydiaNN]

It's just not appropriate.

[wildcats]

As far as I know it is not unethical to talk about religion w/ a pt. any more than it is unethical for a teacher to talk to students about their religious views ( as long as it is a student initiated discussion). Pt.s are often comforted knowing someone is praying for them and, as long as she is letting them direct the conversation there is nothing wrong w/ talking about Jesus.

If I were a patient, I would not want unsolicited religious advice or discussions from my health care providers.

If a patient wanted to talk to me about their religion, I would be more than happy to listen, but I wouldn't talk about my personal beliefs with the patient. Religion is a touchy subject and a very personal one and can be become a very heated and emotional discussion.

[fronkey bean]

I have been on the other side of the bed as a patient many times before I became an RN. Let me tell you, it is mighty uncomfortable to be a captive audience when the priest or chaplain come around to visit and you can not leave your bed. I would be very upset if my nurse would do this also.

The patient has no escape if they are not comfortable with the topic. There is no polite way to say "I am not interested, please go away."

you just did.

[Dalzac, LPN, LVN, RN]

I have always thought that religious and spiritual beliefs are very personal. I have never understood why some folks think that their belief should be everyone's. My folks forced me to go to church and I hated it. Then I married a catholic boy, When his mother became to old to drive to church we started taking her. And I found some place I was comfortable going. My family was absolutely livid, I got more crap from them until I stopped it. We had gone to Christmas dinner at my folks and for some reason my stepmother started bashing the he!! out of our faith to the point we ended up leaving before the end of dinner. I have never pushed my faith at any one, not ever.

Patients, for the most part, hate it. And have mentioned it to me when some nurse would do this. It is rude and presumptuious. If someone did that to me I would immediately report it.

[fronkey bean]

It's just not appropriate.

It is completly appropriate to talk to someone about spiritual matters if they bring up the subject and people who are chronically ill and/or dying bring up the subject alot. As long as the nurse is not walking into their room and launching into a sermon I see no reason she should have to refrain from discussing spiritual matters w/ a pt. Many are grateful.

[fronkey bean]

I have been on the other side of the bed as a patient many times before I became an RN. Let me tell you, it is mighty uncomfortable to be a captive audience when the priest or chaplain come around to visit and you can not leave your bed. I would be very upset if my nurse would do this also.

The patient has no escape if they are not comfortable with the topic. There is no polite way to say "I am not interested, please go away."

also, I assume since you were uncomfortable you did not ask the priest/chaplain to visit. When the discussion is initiated by the caregiver, yes it is inappropriate, but if a pt initiates then there is nothing unethical about it.

[LydiaNN]

It is completly appropriate to talk to someone about spiritual matters if they bring up the subject and people who are chronically ill and/or dying bring up the subject alot. As long as the nurse is not walking into their room and launching into a sermon I see no reason she should have to refrain from discussing spiritual matters w/ a pt. Many are grateful.

Yes, if they bring it up, which they didn't in this case. I understand that you see nothing wrong with it, you have made that clear to me.

[LydiaNN]

also, I assume since you were uncomfortable you did not ask the priest/chaplain to visit. When the discussion is initiated by the caregiver, yes it is inappropriate, but if a pt initiates then there is nothing unethical about it.

But the patient didn't initiate it. So basically, you're agreeing with the rest of us that the conversation as initiated by the nurse (who wanted to "make sure where her patient was going") was inappropriate.

[fronkey bean]

But the patient didn't initiate it. So basically, you're agreeing with the rest of us that the conversation as initiated by the nurse (who wanted to "make sure where her patient was going") was inappropriate.

You dont' know that and neither do I (for that matter unless OP was in room or told by other nurse OP doesn't know), so I'm not "agreeing" w/ you. I'm not disagreeing either I'm just stating what I know to be ethical. Just because this nurse wants to be in a position where she can share her faith if asked does not mean she is sharing it uninvited. If she is, then she is overstepping ethical boundries.

[LydiaNN]

You dont' know that and neither do I (for that matter unless OP was in room or told by other nurse OP doesn't know), so I'm not "agreeing" w/ you. I'm not disagreeing either I'm just stating what I know to be ethical. Just because this nurse wants to be in a position where she can share her faith if asked does not mean she is sharing it uninvited. If she is, then she is overstepping ethical boundries.

Fine. I still understand that as long as the patient initiates the conversation, you think it is fine. I haven't seen anyone who said it wasn't fine under those circumstances. Since I was just talking about nurses who bring it up, and I made that clear, in my mind your acknowledgment that it is overstepping boundaries constitutes agreement. If you wish to disagree even about that, okiedokiefine.

[fronkey bean]

Fine. I still understand that as long as the patient initiates the conversation, you think it is fine. I haven't seen anyone who said it wasn't fine under those circumstances. Since I was just talking about nurses who bring it up, and I made that clear, in my mind your acknowledgment that it is overstepping boundaries constitutes agreement. If you wish to disagree even about that, okiedokiefine.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to disagree w/ you. I was speaking to the OP's original question about if it was ethical to talk to pt.s about religion.

[luvschoolnursing, LPN]

I think it is perfectly ethical to talk to a patient about religion. As a Christian I not only think it is ethical but necessary. I have spoken to patients and have rarely been asked not no pray with them. If they ask me not to, I say nothing else. I'm not Catholic, but I have sat and prayed the rosery with a couple of folks because they asked me to and it gave them great comfort. If we provide comfort in this live for our patients, we should be even more concerned about the next. I now work in public schools, so my ability to talk with the students is restricted by law, and I certainly respect that, but I have spoken to teachers and other staff. They have come to me because they know I am a Christian and asked me to pray for them or a family member.