The Great Double Standard?

ITSSOSIMPLE · Mar 30, 2011

Shouldabeenabarista

I'll say your brother is a great addition to the nursing industry.All the more power to him. :yeah:

Nursemike

Obviously,you are an awesome nurse.There needs to be more men like you in nursing.I'd

like to share a few examples with you regarding some of my experiences. A number of years ago I went to visit my father in

the hospital.He was in an micu unit and shortly after arriving in the unit I asked the nurse for the closest bathroom. The bathroom

was in the unit and it was the staff bathroom and used by visitors as well.Inside the bathroom every inch of the wall was covered

with full nude foldouts of men from playgirl magazine. As I walked through the unit I noticed all the nurses were female,and that

some male patients were nude in bed with the curtains fully open.

Let's imagine for a moment and reverse the roles,a unit fully staffed by men with full nude foldouts from playboy magazine adorning every square inch of the staff bathroom and young female patients fully nude with the curtains open.What is wrong with this picture. I won't go on with my personal experiences as a patient and the ugly experiences

I've had with female nursing aka as the title of this thread the great double standard,however,all patients male and female

deserve the same respect for privacy.

Over 95 percent of all nurses are female,and for many of us male patients it's not about modesty

but rather respect,respectful care.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Mar 30, 2011

Shouldabeenabarista
I'll say your brother is a great addition to the nursing industry.All the more power to him.
Nursemike
Obviously,you are an awesome nurse.There needs to be more men like you in nursing.I'd
like to share a few examples with you regarding some of my experiences. A number of years ago I went to visit my father in
the hospital.He was in an micu unit and shortly after arriving in the unit I asked the nurse for the closest bathroom. The bathroom
was in the unit and it was the staff bathroom and used by visitors as well.Inside the bathroom every inch of the wall was covered
with full nude foldouts of men from playgirl magazine. As I walked through the unit I noticed all the nurses were female,and that
some male patients were nude in bed with the curtains fully open.
Let's imagine for a moment and reverse the roles,a unit fully staffed by men with full nude foldouts from playboy magazine adorning every square inch of the staff bathroom and young female patients fully nude with the curtains open.What is wrong with this picture. I won't go on with my personal experiences as a patient and the ugly experiences
I've had with female nursing aka as the title of this thread the great double standard,however,all patients male and female
deserve the same respect for privacy.
Over 95 percent of all nurses are female,and for many of us male patients it's not about modesty
but rather respect,respectful care.

That is appalling, and no, please don't feel obligated to relate any uncomfortable personal experiences. I'm afraid we can probably imagine. As you observe, such a situation would never be allowed if the genders were reversed, and should not have been allowed as it was. I will say, I have at times found keeping patients covered problematic, and it isn't always safe to keep doors closed or curtains drawn. For reasons not entirely clear to me, elderly, confused men seem far more prone to expose themselves than elderly, confused women. (Well, it isn't entirely unclear, either. Sometimes "the boys" need to breathe.) But I'm not saying problematic means you don't try.

I also recognize that there are men or boys who have had traumatic histories prior to encountering a nurse, and that some such histories are of males abused by females. Male victims should be treated with the same senstivity as females. I've argued on other threads that female victims of abuse might actually benefit from contact with a gentle, caring, respectful male, but that obviously needs to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. A patient who might, indeed, benefit from such contact, someday, may not be ready for it, yet.

Although there are more men in nursing, today, than at any time in the recent past, we are still sufficiently rare that on some shifts on some units, it may simply not be possible to accommodate a patient who prefers a male nurse and/or aide. I believe this can, and should, be ameliorated by actively recruiting males, but I'm not convinced the problem merits special treatment for male recruits. I think it would be sufficient--and probably more productive, in the long run--simply to get the word out that nursing can be a rewarding and useful field for men. Despite the increase in males entering nursing, I believe it continues to be the case that males are twice as likely to leave the field within five years than their female peers. My personal feeling is that if more men really knew what nurses do, more would be likely to consider the field, and those who entered would be more likely to stay. On the other hand, I've been a nurse long enough to see why some people leave, even though I intend to stay.

Of course it saddens me to hear that some have had bad experiences with nurses. It saddens me more to realize that some of my patients have had bad experiences with me, although at least I can say it was never intentional. But I also have to say that most of the nurses I've known, male or female, have been people I've been proud to associate with.

Colin the Red RN · Apr 5, 2011

agreed, whenever I take care of a female patient that is roughly my age, +/- 10yrs, I always take another staff member into the room just to have another set of eyes, not to make sure I am doing my job right, but to protect myself in case the patient decides to accuse me of anything inappropriate. That way I have my word, and a witness against theirs. It is not a policy at our facility-yet. but it is good practice in my opinion.

Cul2 · Apr 5, 2011

to colin the red rn --

what you've described is a very caregiver-centered practice. i'm not saying it may not be necessary. we live in a world that often requires it. but it takes away any patient individuality -- e.g. all patients are potential accusers, all patients of a certain gender and/or certain age. you say you bring in a "another staff member." i'll bet you'd never take in another male staff member. yet, a female nurse dealing with a male patient, may decide to take in a witness and she will almost always take in another female nurse. this is one of the great "double standards" that this thread is about. none of this places patient comfort upfront. "another set of eyes" is just what many patients don't want for very personal, intimate care. having said that, i don't discount the need to protect yourself. i don't have the answer. but this kind of protective behavior may impact patient comfort, autonomy, dignity and may result in losing trust.

Colin the Red RN · Apr 5, 2011

in terms of patient care, I always place the patient's needs first. If the patient has no qualms about having a male nurse, I do not make it an issue. I perform the job as any nurse would. In terms of if I feel another set of eyes is needed, I grab anyone who is nearby, male, female, whoever is available.

I understand your point in making myself safe from accusation, but also the other staff member is handy should I need any additional supplies. In nursing school it was instructed that as a male nurse it has become "customary" to have another person present to ensure patient privacy, as well as safety, and to try to maintain all aspects of patient dignity and comfort. The skill to be performed directly dictates the need for assistance, ie, bathing is best done with two for efficiency, patient comfort, and to assist with "boosting" the patient.

For other areas of peri-care or catheter insertion, wound care, or dressing changes, etc, assistive personel may be used when sterility is to be maintained. I do not just have "a body" standing in the room watching, as my previous post may have alluded to, rather I choose to have a helping hand should they arise, and accomplish multiple tasks at the same time.

in terms of a female nurse having another set of eyes for similar protection, I have yet to see this happen, again due to the double standard. Again, in school it was only taught to have a "witness" for male nurses.

Argo · Apr 6, 2011

I have never had a female patient aske for a female nurse. Never while in OR or working on a floor nursing unit.... I always ask before doing any sort of peri care or catheters if the patient has any problem. I have never had them tell me they did....

shouldabeenabarista · Apr 7, 2011

I work in geriatrics and we have a lot of females who require female care only. Just a few of the males request a male caregiver but here is an interesting twist along that line: we have some male residents in our facility who see a male coming in to care for them and they get very angry and defensive- I am assuming that the thought of a young male helping a vulnerable older male threatens the resident. I have had to step in on several occasions to prevent an assault.

However, the same residents who require female care only and the males who are defensive with the male caregivers have no objection to a male doctor exposing them for an exam, invasive procedures, etc. I do think geriatrics is a world in it's own.

I applaud everyone who provides good care to residents/patients as well as watches out for their own safety.

middleager · Apr 8, 2011

What a complex issue, while schools teaching male nurses need to have two people for their protection while females do not may be a double standard and sexist, it is not without reason. On the other hand if we reversed the genders such teaching would be met with loud protests and lawsuits. On the patient side, while male patients may prefer to have same gender for intimate procedures the numbers are against them which supports the hospitals need to ignore gender preference for males since it is harder to provide and the ramifications are less severe since very few males feel comfortable complaining and even fewer will make a charge against providers just becasue they feel uncomfortable or misinterpet care. That said, patients can not hold providers 100% liable for the issue if they are not willing to make their preferences known upfront. I have a preference for same gender for procedures involving exposure, I used to just go with it and be ticked at providers. Once I started asking I found out providers were more than willing to accomodate when they could. My anger was misplaced, while I agree in many cases females don't have to ask, they are just accomodated, in many cases males don't ask and just get ****** afterward. I have found most providers to be very sypathetic to my requests far more than I antcipated or gave them credit for. So you can't dump the whole blame on the providers when many male patients don't let them know upfront.

monsuun · Apr 9, 2011

I have an awesome solution! If a male or female nurse is PROVEN to have sexually molested someone in their care, shoot them! If someone is PROVEN to falsely accuse someone of sexually molesting them, shoot them! You'd have a whole lot fewer cases of both!! Unfortunately no one ever takes my solutions seriously... :coollook:

ITSSOSIMPLE · Apr 10, 2011

In keeping with the original thread the implication is that male nurses can't be trusted or any other male

for that matter. Women have made this known in that there are no male mammographers nor male nurses

In L&D. For years nursing administration has insured this yet if you look at other industries such as prison

systems female prison guards are guilty of sexual assault more so against male inmates than male guards

against female inmates according to the Dept. of justice.

The situation repeats itself with male teenage detention centers across the nation. Additionally,we are seeing

a dramatic increase in the number of female teachers having sex with young male students. The nursing industry

Is no different as BON displiniary records show female nurses are having their nursing licenses revoked for sexual

offenses such as sexual assault,impropriety and boundary violations.

It's sad to think that people go into nursing just to be able to carry out intimate procedures on patients for their

own gratification. The solution simply is this,each patient that enters a medical facility fill out a card for their

preferences for gender selection regarding any intimate procedure.

jpaxton22 · Apr 17, 2011

I guess my point is regardless of the patients wishes, these female nurses are automatically assuming that we (for some reason?) should not be providing care. It really wouldn't be an issue if the patient said they would be more comfortable with a females care, which wouldn't bother me at all, at least I can understand that. I have a big problem just accepting an answer that is "well thats just the way it is" If all people accepted that as an answer, women wouldn't be able to vote, and african americans wouldn't have equal rights. I know these examples are extreme but I really hate this distinction that males can only do " ..." while females can do it all. What can be done to change this?

I agree with you, and what a lot of the female nurses seem not to realize is that if they asked their male patient's, 90% are more comfortable with a male nurse providing their care. I run into this all the time in clinicals and in the assisted living where I work. Everyone seems to forget that males can be shy and embarrassed too. But back to the point, just don't give these nurses the option, tell them that you are going to care for your patient. It took me the entire first semester to work up the courage but now there is not a single nurse who doubts my ability to be professional with females and to make them comfortable.

jpaxton22 · Apr 17, 2011

agreed, whenever I take care of a female patient that is roughly my age, +/- 10yrs, I always take another staff member into the room just to have another set of eyes, not to make sure I am doing my job right, but to protect myself in case the patient decides to accuse me of anything inappropriate. That way I have my word, and a witness against theirs. It is not a policy at our facility-yet. but it is good practice in my opinion.

I can completely understand your reasoning for covering yourself, but I do not think this is best practice due to it being one more obstacle to performing our jobs. If we have to drag another health care provider in any time we need to work on our patient's of the opposite sex then it will be an additional drain on the hospitals and insurance companys. This will lead to more cut backs on needed care and second thoughts on hiring.