The future of Obamacare

Nurses Activism

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Why does the left always believe people are stupid or brainwashed when they don't agree with them. We understand exactly what the President is up to this isn't a thugocracy like he is use to in Chicago and his minions in the House and Senate are finding out this aint't no "Burger King" legislation where they can have it their way. Once again the people who make this country work will be footing the bill for a bunch of free loaders who always want something for nothing and do nothing as productive members of society except funding casinos, lottery sales, alcohol, and cigarettes instead of paying their bills.

"Ignorance, the most expensive commodity we pay for in this country"- Rush Limbaugh

or we the healthcare insurance corporations????????

these teabaggers are doing the lobbyists dirty work and not even getting paid for it - I can't believe that so many people have been brainwashed into lobbying against their own interests -amazing!

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Specializes in burn, geriatric, rehab, wound care, ER.
Since when is capitalism a crime?

Nobody said capitalism is a crime.

If you are so interested in preserving capitalism in America then see below - I found an interesting article for you

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-309200

Why Health Care Reform - "It's the Economy Stupid" and Capitalism-

* Health Care Reform is about fixing the U.S. economy and the deficits that will increase due to increasing health care costs and the related negative impact on the U.S. economy.

"The first and most important thing in getting the federal deficit under control is substantial reform of the health care system," - National Economic Council Director Lawrence Summers

* Making insurance coverage more affordable for people with existing coverage, people without coverage, small businesses that provide coverage, and big businesses that provide coverage.

* Preventing families from losing their life savings, going out of business, and going bankrupt.

* Correcting the trend towards a sicker population results in bigger profits for the medical community, towards a healthier population results in bigger profits for the medical community, a more competitive and productive U.S. population, and a better U.S. economy.

* Making the medical community's and Insurance Corp. systems more efficient and eliminating waste or unnecessary procedures.

* The issue of liability and insurance costs and the related medical errors or malpractice.

* Addressing the issues that contribute to rising health care costs. (diet, obesity, tobacco, cancer, alcohol, food processing, pollution)

* Preventing a loss in morals or values. A disproportionate number of veterans are in the streets for reasons related to a lack of safety measures and coverage. (macromineral deficiencies and PTSD)

* Safety measures related to prevention and preventing death.

* Preventing negative perceptions towards Capitalism.

* Making the U.S. economy more competitive with other foreign economies.

* The economic costs to the U.S. economy and families will be far greater if nothing is done.

Health care costs have risen from 7% to 17% in a very short period of time and will continue to increase at an alarming rate. As health care costs continue to increase more people will be unable to afford coverage, more people will be strapped for cash because of rising costs, more families will be going bankrupt, more small businesses will be unable offer plans to employees, more small businesses will be unable to compete, and more people will die due to a lack of coverage. "premiums for the average American family are rising three times faster than their wages" - DNC National Press Secretary Hari Sevugan

At this time about 1 million families in the U.S. go bankrupt because of a lack of coverage or not enough coverage, and sometimes it's just a question of not reading the fine print. "The cost of health care now causes a bankruptcy in America every 30 seconds. By the end of the year, it could cause 1.5 million Americans to lose their homes," - Obama

In comparison, other countries that have universal health care the costs are about 9% to 12%, and do not exclude 50 million people like in the U.S. Both the rising costs of health care that continue to increase at an alarming rate in the U.S. and the fact that so many families go bankrupt a year have a negative impact on the U.S. economy, and the U.S. will be at a disadvantage or will not be able to compete on the Global economic scene because of this.

Health care reform is about bringing down the costs of health care and providing affordable options for those with existing health care coverage and those without coverage. The result is people having more money to save, invest, and spend which stimulates the U.S. economy and creates growth and jobs. Extending coverage to another 50 million people will also create more demand for services and create jobs.

It's in everyone's interest to have more affordable health care including people with existing coverage, small businesses, big businesses, and the U.S. economy. It will make smaller businesses that provide health care coverage more completive. Big businesses are also affected by the smaller businesses and their rising costs, and by the U.S. economy.

Health care reform is not only about insurance plans, it's about making the U.S. population healthier and more productive, and there are many other issues involved to reduce health care costs and changing the trend towards the sickest population in the world, towards the healthiest and most productive in the world. The medical community will also try to make their systems more efficient and eliminate waste or unnecessary procedures. A healthier and more productive population results in lower absenteeism, disability, and death and therefore a better and more competitive U.S. economy.

Capitalism

* Safety measures such as law enforcement and firefighting are about prevention and preventing death, basic health care is also about prevention and preventing death, how is it different?

* What is the cost or negative impact on the US economy when a person dies from a lack of coverage and what is the dollar value of a person's life? It's not about the size of a home or car; it's about a person's life.

* Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the world's largest retailer and a company most labor officials cite as their anti-union poster child supports health care reform. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., is also a poster child of globalization and Capitalism.

* The Principles of Capitalism can also be used to find solutions.

* The countries and economies that can work together to make themselves more productive and competitive, and this is the issue and part of Capitalism, without using political rhetoric for political gain that get in the way of this process and what is needed, will win the economic battles and wars of the future.

Negative and False Perceptions of Capitalism

* Capitalism is to blame for the death of a loved one. What is your perception or the effect on a person's perception of what Capitalism is when someone they know or care for dies because of a lack of coverage or you don't have enough money to continue to live, it's just the way it is?

* Capitalism is to blame for the obesity epidemic and rising health care costs.

* Capitalism is to blame for the economic collapse and downturn. Some of the Banking elite blamed Capitalism for the economic downturn, which also results in a negative perception of Capitalism. Some people may even perceive Capitalism as equaling fraud or crime.

Meeting of the Minds: The Future of Capitalism - These are some of the statements I remember:

Vikram Pandit - "You cannot allow the U.S. consumer to dictate global growth" "we didn't have the right guard rails for Capitalism"

Larry Fink - "Capitalism went too far, no one governing the excesses of Capitalism. I'm guilty, we are all guilty." "we had a society that believed in housing"

Other statements and something like - "we need a new Capitalism because there was something wrong with the old Capitalism"

The Medical Industry and Capitalism

* An unhealthy and sick population benefits the medical industry with demand, profit, and growth but has an adverse effect on the productivity and growth of the U.S. economy as a whole.

* Pharmaceuticals are for profit corporations and aim to increase the use and demand for their products, aim to find expensive or highly profitable and owned solutions instead of simple common and inexpensive solutions, aim to increase profit and growth, and the growth in demand and use of their products. The miracle pill with a cost of $1000 a day instead of an apple a day solution of $1 a week and this is linked to prevention and the U.S. diet.

* Food products that are unhealthy or void of nutritional value are approved by the medical community and contribute to health care costs, but are low in cost and result in bigger profits.

* Food products that are high in caffeine and sugar can result in food addiction and bigger profits, nicotine is another example, but have an adverse effect on health care costs.

* Examples of adverse health effects: macromineral deficiencies, acid-base disorders, insomnia, sugar addictions, brain fog (sugar), sugar cravings (sugar), attention disorders (sugar), mood disorders (lift and crash sugar), obesity epidemic, heart and stoke, and cancer.

* Again, as the U.S. population continues the current trend of getting sicker, resulting in rising health care costs, the U.S. population will become less and less productive, and the U.S. economy will be less and less able to compete on the Global economic scene.

* The principles of capitalism, incentives, and profitability are important to reduce costs and increase profit.

* If the medical industry and community reject or resent the implementation of a Universal Health Care system it will result in retaliation and attempts to make the system inefficient and costly.

Capitalism Works Very Well and is Not to Blame

The blame lies with the organizations that allow these products on the market and this is linked to the medical community. It's a question of legislation and changing the factors that result in bigger profits towards healthy ones, and this is Capitalism.

Health care reform and the rising health care costs and the banking industry and the related economic collapse and downturn are a question of legislation, regulations, and laws.

your more than welcome!

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I don't disagree with some of the issues presented in the article. What it doesn't say, or I missed, is the impact of attorney's/class action law suits/judges with empathy have on the cost of health care. I sure if the powers to be placed some sort of tort reform on the system...it would be the quickest and most effective (IMHO) way to reduce costs.

Additionally, medicare/medicaid abuse needs to be controlled....like here in this article

http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=69029&catid=37

I don't work in the system mentioned in the article, but I see the same stuff everyday at work. I just happened to come across the story on another board discussing a similar topic.

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Specializes in ER.

Sure the Seniors love Medicare, they go to the doctor or ER or whatever and the only thing they have to complain about is medicare not paying for some medications. However, Medicare is a money loser, it under pays providers in general, and if this disaster of a bill gets passed, they plan on paying for it by taking a portion of the medicare funding and slowing and lowering reimbursement.

The cost of the program and how they plan on paying for it concerns me. The sense of entitlement that is growing in this country concerns me. The effect of less money being paid to providers and hospitals concerns me, as hospitals go broke they will start by laying off staff and then closing the doors no matter what the effect on patient care is so don't fool yourself.

The only way to eliminate the last bit is by having government bailout of hospitals in the future. Is that really what we want?

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Specializes in ER.
or we the healthcare insurance corporations????????

these teabaggers are doing the lobbyists dirty work and not even getting paid for it - I can't believe that so many people have been brainwashed into lobbying against their own interests -amazing!

Perhaps those of you drinking the Socialism Obama Kool Aid are the ones brainwashed.

Life isn't black and white, sometimes you have to use logic and facts and make the best decision. Everytime someone presents another point of view to the people pushing one of Obama's agendas they are called unimformed or even stupid by those who believe. Present a reason, a logical and factual reason (not "healthcare is a right"), that a healthplan that will cost over a trillion dollars, raise taxes, result in people dropping private insurance to join more government plans, and result in the closing of businesses, even hospitals eventually makes sense? The proposed plan only covers 17 million of the 30-50 million they estimate are uninsured and many of those people still will not seek preventative care offered because they have no real incentive to. The government can't efficiently run Medicare/aid, the VA system, or even a Cash for Clunkers program without major problems and now people think they should run healthcare?

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Specializes in burn, geriatric, rehab, wound care, ER.
I don't disagree with some of the issues presented in the article. What it doesn't say, or I missed, is the impact of attorney's/class action law suits/judges with empathy have on the cost of health care. I sure if the powers to be placed some sort of tort reform on the system...it would be the quickest and most effective (IMHO) way to reduce costs.

Additionally, medicare/medicaid abuse needs to be controlled....like here in this article

http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=69029&catid=37

I don't work in the system mentioned in the article, but I see the same stuff everyday at work. I just happened to come across the story on another board discussing a similar topic.

I am pleased that we can reach some common ground on this issue, and I agree that tort reform is also necessary.

Re "You paid for it:Ambulance rides and Health reform"

I work in a community hospital ER and see similar abuses and it INFURIATES me. I have looked after a similar offender on several occasions -a paraplegic with chronic neurogenic pain who just happens to be out of pain meds. The last time I saw him, I told him (in a very calm manner) that he needs to be better organized and arrange to have his pain meds always at hand because with the current budget crisis in California, the state could not afford to pay for his rides in the "big red taxi"(lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part) It's been a while since I saw him -I hope he got the message!

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Specializes in burn, geriatric, rehab, wound care, ER.
sometimes you have to use logic and facts and make the best decision

I totally agree -forget the ideology -lets just look at the facts!

The overwhelming evidence out there is that we need healthcare reform to best serve the needs of the American people (and not just those of the health insurance corporations) - I could refer you to this website or that but you may think I have some bias. So please do some research on your own and educate yourself on how well/badly the current system is working, compare our stats/ costs to those of other developed nations and ignore the talking heads for just a little while.

I do not mean to insult other members on this board of a different ideological persuasion than myself, by calling them "brainwashed" -but when I examine the facts, this is the only logical conclusion I can reach. My apologies to any whom I may have offended -sometimes I get a bit "hot under the collar".

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Specializes in ER.

Statistics can be swayed, remember, 4 out of 5 dentists choose Crest yet 4 out 5 also choose Colgate.

There are no countries with populations as high as the US that cover as big of an area that have a successful socialistic system or a univeral payer. Basically the same will happen that happens with the education system. Unequal distribution of funds and services= more problems.

Maybe, just maybe, if our government could fix the medicare problems and fix the VA system, and I don't mean just saving money but actually having good hospitals within reach for all the Vets, then I'll be for it.

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Specializes in burn, geriatric, rehab, wound care, ER.
Maybe, just maybe, if our government could fix the medicare problems and fix the VA system, and I don't mean just saving money but actually having good hospitals within reach for all the Vets, then I'll be for it.

This is what I want too -perhaps the way forward is to take ideological differences as a given and concentrate on the practicalities of achieving common goals. I once heard someone say that democrats and republicans have more in common than they realize and that if we just stop demonizing each other, we might just be able to get something done that pleases both parties.

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-sometimes I get a bit "hot under the collar".

It's all good...Next time I raise a pint to "cool off" i'll raise it in your honor! :cheers:

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The VA system (while not perfect.) is actually the model we should pursue as we reform our system.....

1. Primary care focused.

2. Community Based clinics

3. Emphasis on keeping people healthy AND intervening before they need hospitalization....

What makes this such an explosive story is that the VHA is a truly socialized medical system. The unquestioned leader in American health care is a government agency that employs 198,000 federal workers from five different unions, and nonetheless maintains short wait times and high consumer satisfaction. Eighty-three percent of VHA hospital patients say they are satisfied with their care, 69 percent report being seen within 20 minutes of scheduled appointments, and 93 percent see a specialist within 30 days.

Critics will say that the VHA is not significantly cheaper than other American health care, but that's misleading. In fact, the VHA is also proving far better than the private sector at controlling costs. As Longman explains, "Veterans enrolled in [the VHA] are, as a group, older, sicker, poorer, and more prone to mental illness, homelessness, and substance abuse than the population as a whole. Half of all VHA enrollees are over age 65. More than a third smoke. One in five veterans has diabetes, compared with one in 14 U.S. residents in general." Yet the VHA's spending per patient in 2004 was $540 less than the national average, and the average American is healthier and younger (the nation includes children; the VHA doesn't)

http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_health_of_nations
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The VA system, without failure, should be the best system in the world for one simple reason. These men and women defend freedom. They defend the right to free speech. They defend the democratic process. They defend the Constitution of the United States of America. They stand the wall so we may sleep at night.

The VA system is not perfect and has it problems. Providing these people anything less then the best is just wrong and immoral. And by the way, most vets don't abuse the system. If Vets burdened the systems like the folks on Medicaid who use the ER like their personal nanny, the system would fail miserably.

God Bless America and the military personnel that defend it. Yo HM2, thanks.

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