The future of nursing. Everybody is impacted. Big discussion in SK.

[magnoliya]

Dear nurses

I would like to introduce a new and immensely important topic for discussion. There is a big discussion going on in SK, Canada about roles of Registered nurses(RNs) and Licensed Practical Nurses(LPNs). Everything started when LPNs decided to update their bylaws. Should LPNs be given new privileges and roles? Should LPNs go back to school to study more? What will be the role of RNs then? What is the benefit of having two types of nurses? Is it fair to give certain privileges to somebody who studied less than somebody who studied more to acquire those privileges?

Some people call it a turf war and hysteria, others job creep and patients safety issue. Some LPNs want their bylaws updated while others don't as it means more responsibility.

Here is an article that describes the issue.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/registered-nurses-say-proposed-changes-could-hurt-patients-1.2769608

Please share what do you think about all this? Perhaps this should be a global nursing topic but as this discussion is currently going on in SK, Canada, I started it in "Nursing in Canada" category.

you can probably find some more information here.

http://vimeo.com/channels/fromthedeskoftheed

or follow Treacy Zambory SUN ED on twitter who advocates in the favor of RNs

or follow Lynsay Nair executive director of SALPN who advocates in the favor of LPNs

Patients first , safety always!!!!

FYI: LPN in SK is an equivalent of RPN in Ontario.

RPN in SK means Registered Psiciatric Nurse

[Fiona59]

Uhhh.....ICU is direct hands on care..

Novo, are you stalking me? Or just a fanboi?

Yes, I know ICU is direct hands on care. The difference is nearly every LPN I have ever worked with has had zero desire to work there. It's beyond our skill set in most instances and speaking for myself, I don't want to work with vented patients.

But hey, my post drew you out of the woodwork.

[magnoliya]

To all people who think that RNs are overpriced

On Friday I had a plumber in my house and his hourly wage is 90$. plus he charged markup on all parts. (this was his usual, day time rate).

Remind me What was the rate for RN?! How long does it take to become a plumber? How long does it take to become an RN? How much risk/responsibility does plumber take? What would be plumber's rate if I called him at night?

Quote from NotReady4PrimeTime, RN Senior Moderator

"You do understand that MPs (Members of Parliament) are federal representatives and that health care is a provincially-administered program with responsibility to meet the standards laid out in the Canada Health Act, right? MPs don't involve themselves with provincial government concerns- it's outside their purview. As joanna73 said in her post, the province determines the budget for health care, as it does for education, infrastructure, supports for seniors and many other departments. The province dictates what money will be spent on health care, not the federal government. So writing to an MP will maybe meet a need a person has for complaining, but it won't result in any action on their behalf. If you want to be politically active at the PROVINCIAL level you need to get acquainted with your MLA "

The point was to ring all bells and whistles. To contact everybody and to speak out. If I contact MP, I will surely do an extra mouse click and send same e-mail to MLA as well. I will even send it to our senators too. Besides problems that cannot be addressed at local level, theoretically can go to federal level. (like case with missing and murdered aboriginal women). Im not even sure whether it is good to have a registering body in every province. It would be nice to have national standards like in many other countries. The paperwork and confusion is insane when you transfer from province to province. As this jurisdiction is given to MLAs, it can be taken from them. Maybe you Senior Moderator will became next prime minister and drive the change. However, let's not waste time discussing topics that do not really apply to us at this stage.

Somebody here said word "condescending" -

Maybe condescending but still true. Whatever is condescending for you is hard work, hard studies and hard earned privileges for me.

I applaud to all the people on this site who call for RNs and LPNs to stand united. Simple logic. If RNs loose their jobs, LPNs are next in line. Given that even a plumber charges 90$/hour(no disrespect to plumbers) we have all moral rights to ask governments to spend more money for better care of our patients.

Remember, I called this topic "The future of nursing"?

[Fiona59]

You were lucky. You got a cheap plumber. My last experience with one was five years ago and he charged $101/hr to show up.

Plumbers are highly skilled tradesmen. Four years of apprenticeship and exams along the way. Have a look at what they are required to know to get their papers and exams written.

There are so many things wrong with your post that I don't know where to start. Instead I'm going to bed.

[magnoliya]

so plumbers have 4 years of education and so do registered nurses. and so do registered nurses have exams and clinics.

However plumbers make 3 time the wage of the registered nurses. you think it is fair. do they know more about pipes than nurses know about patients.?or maybe their job is more important than nurses's job?

and who has more responsibility? plumbers who's biggest fear is leaking pipes or registered nurses who are responsible for people's lives and can potentially do terrible mistake and hurt somebody.

i'm just writhing you all this to show you that nurses are not overpaid, I'm not sure what motivates you to argue with me. It is actually strange that you ,being a nurse , advocate that you are overpaid while plumbers who make 3 times your wages are not.

[dayandnight]

In the States the LPNs are kind of phasing out of acute care due to the fact so many nurses are going into the 2 year RN route. 1 year on-line course and they get their BSN afterwards. 2 year RNs in US have the same scope of practice as 4 year RNs. They just get paid less. You can get enough education to practice efficiently in just 2 years. it is possible. In Australia nurses study 3 years to get their RN, not 4 years.

I don't think Canadian nurses are overpaid, in fact, with the amount of stress they are under, working days and nights while other nurses in different countries work straight days, straight night shifts, understaffing etc, we should be paid more.

The fact that the government in this country prioritizes finance over healthcare is ludicrous. I understand healthcare is free for all but in BC we pay 75 bucks a month per person on this MSP system that doesn't even benefit our hospitals, community health etc. Where is the money going to? I don't know. But our hospitals are cutting beds, lines are affected etc. We are always short staffed for some odd reason.

I don't think the scope of a profession is that important here. Canadian healthcare system needs to change in one way or the other. I believe if LPNs want a broader scope of practice, they should become RNs and the bridging education for that should be more available. In rural communities I see the importance of LPNS and their scope should be modified to meet the needs of the community. Also, their education system should change to cater to this new change. I have many friends finding it difficult to go into bridging programs due to lack of programs available, and the competition nowadays is just too high.

[magnoliya]

i could not agree more about everything you have said. unfortunately not a lot of people can see the situation clearly. i was shocked when some nurses here said that we are being overpaid. i would not want to be taken care by a nurse who thinks that he/she is overpaid. it means she/he does not take pride in what she/he is doing.

by the way i learned how to do plumbing in one weekend. watched youtube. i built water lines and drain pipes in my basement. installed, shower walls, tub, sink,bowl. very technical, very easy job. no critical thinking, no stress, no prioritizing, very little accountability. cut a pipe, apply glue, connect another pipe go home and sleep well.

somebody here will say. "it sounds condescending" so what! talking the truth, im not trying to please anybody.

maybe next life i will be a plumber.

nobody respects nurses, even not nurses themselves.

somebody said (2 posts ago)plumbers are highly educated professionals(as opposed to nurses)

until we have this mentality we will be underpaid

i personally think that any privileges should be given only after appropriate training. i know how to be a plumber but i do not have privileges and im fine with that.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Prioritizing finances over quality care is the norm for Canada, the US, Australia, and the UK. That's not new. Everyone is trying to balance their budgets.

If you really want quality health care, you have to pay for it. Our public health care system provides only the essentials, with minimal resources and overworked staff.

[magnoliya]

resources are not that limited. i can see that money is not spent wisely. i can see very reach and very not efficient system. health care it is a hole that sucks a lot of money. the problem is that nobody cares about the money since this money belongs to nobody.

if it was your father's money, every penny would be accounted for. and expenses would go down while quality would go up

it is difficult to pay for private health care after you already paid like 40% of your income in taxes. i think that at least 10-15% of my taxes go to cover health care

so like give 10% for health care and then go and buy it private

im not buying this "balancing the budget" argument.

this argument actually helps to run our system inefficiently.

we can only start fixing the problem after we all agree what real problem is. we need Donald Trump to fire many people

[bradons]

Health Care in Canada is simple.

Patients don't matter.

Nurses are replaceable.

Managers save lives.

Its all about the money.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Health Care in Canada is simple.

Patients don't matter.

Nurses are replaceable.

Managers save lives.

Its all about the money.

Sadly, that is exactly what health care has become. It's all about the money.