It used to be that nurses did not have to go to college; we were instead trained by hospitals. Then the education requirement changed and community college replaced hospitals. And now, it is changing to that some hospitals will only hire nurses with college degrees. Undoubtedly, the education requirement will continue to increase in the future.
The downside to this is that it will make this profession harder to get into. And those who are in the profession will constantly need to adapt by going back to school. The upside to this is that it will provide us with more skills to do a better job.
I have a non-nursing B.S. degree, which gets you out of some distribution requirements in an undergraduate nursing program, but means nothing once you're in practice (though it can be of some help in certain research jobs). The "junk courses" you take are designed to make you a more well-rounded person, a better critical thinker, and adept at gathering and consuming information in a coherent way.
I don't know that most BSN programs use their hours to the most constructive extent possible, but no one will be hurt by taking ethics and statistics courses. An ADN holder is not well-equipped to really understand (e.g., determine the validity of its methodology) a research paper. The conclusion is nice, but it's often full of wishful thinking.
And as the poster above says, as a team leader, as many RNs are, learning some management skills is advantageous.
Finally, any bachelor degree will put you ahead of an ASN for most non-nursing jobs. To the people who are certain they don't want to continue with their education: Are you also certain that you want to remain as a patient care RN until you retire?
I'll reiterate: I'm not saying that most BSN programs fulfill their purpose. But I'm not saying that they don't. :)
If BSN nurses, as a group, feel they have more to offer nursing than ADN nurses then they should fight to establish their *own* unique level of licensure with an expanded scope of practice. As it stands, BSNs and ADNs have the *same* licensure and the *same* scope of practice. And ADNs have already proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are equal to this SOP and licensure.
So if you (as a BSN) feel frustrated that no one will take you seriously as a professional as long as you're grouped with two year degreed nurses, then it's incumbent upon YOU to elevate your own status and forge your own level of nursing with it's own licensure. Don't seek to elevate your status by demoting others. That is childish and narcissistic. ADNs do not need to prove themselves worthy of the RN title. They did so decades ago. If you feel your education makes you a better nurse put your money where your mouth is and petition to create your own higher practice role that proves it.
As some have said, the need for a degree is making Nursing a Profession rather than a technical skill. You have a large scope of practice that can be transferable into many healthcare, insurance, education fields. Nursing is definitely becoming a more broad practice, and I can see where obtaining a masters specializing in a particular area will be more beneficial. This will place Nursing on the same scale as other medical professionals I.E. Doctors( of course they'll be insulted). But, the inclusion of a doctoral program is making the education of NPs more equatable with that of physicians...Sue me!
If it was paid for by the employer then fine. At 50 it is about not acquiring debt.
Has nothing to do with the whole ADN vs BSN thing for me.
There are costs and benefits to all choices, each of use has to weigh the pros and cons. It is not pleasant to endure the fiscal cost of school but there is a professional advantage that is gained from the degree.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
Only a "insert bad word" starts racking up debt at age 50. It makes no fiscal sense as you will not recoup the cost by the debt affording you higher pay. If you are 20 it makes sense. Not if you are 50 unless they are going to pay you a higher salary which is not the case going from an ADN to a BSN.
If BSN nurses, as a group, feel they have more to offer nursing than ADN nurses then they should fight to establish their *own* unique level of licensure with an expanded scope of practice. As it stands, BSNs and ADNs have the *same* licensure and the *same* scope of practice. And ADNs have already proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are equal to this SOP and licensure.
So if you (as a BSN) feel frustrated that no one will take you seriously as a professional as long as you're grouped with two year degreed nurses, then it's incumbent upon YOU to elevate your own status and forge your own level of nursing with it's own licensure. Don't seek to elevate your status by demoting others. That is childish and narcissistic. ADNs do not need to prove themselves worthy of the RN title. They did so decades ago. If you feel your education makes you a better nurse put your money where your mouth is and petition to create your own higher practice role that proves it.
While I don't appreciate the underlying hostility of Brandon's post, I do agree with one of the key points. We should establish separate licensure for BSN's and ADN/Diploma grads. With separate licenses and separate scopes of practice, the differences between the two would be more clear. People fall back on the "same NCLEX" argument to justify the non-support of higher education all to easily. It's a lazy argument, but one that holds enough weight for people who don't want to advance their education or support the education of others. We should eliminate it by developing a separate NCLEX.
Only a "insert bad word" starts racking up debt at age 50. It makes no fiscal sense as you will not recoup the cost by the debt affording you higher pay. If you are 20 it makes sense. Not if you are 50 unless they are going to pay you a higher salary which is not the case going from an ADN to a BSN.
Depends on the fiscal cost and your future employment prospects.
If you wish to stay a floor nurse then most likely not. If it cost you $8,000 to bridge from ADN to BSN and you received a $1 an hour raise then it would take you three years and 10 months to break even.
Now if by earning your BSN you were able to procure a better, better compensated, position then the debt would obviously be paid much sooner.
While I don't appreciate the underlying hostility of Brandon's post, I do agree with one of the key points. We should establish separate licensure for BSN's and ADN/Diploma grads. With separate licenses and separate scopes of practice, the differences between the two would be more clear. People fall back on the "same NCLEX" argument to justify the non-support of higher education all to easily. It's a lazy argument, but one that holds enough weight for people who don't want to advance their education or support the education of others. We should eliminate it by developing a separate NCLEX.
I believe the idea of professionalizing nursing is to consolidate and raise the minimum education for entry into the profession, not to add more levels of nursing at varying levels of education.
Most likely when the bar is advanced to the BSN all of the ADN nurses will be grandfathered in and new nurses will have to achieve the BSN standard. Similar to the advancement of the nurse practitioner programs to DNPs from MSNs.
Specializes in Home Health, MS, Oncology, Case Manageme.
If I'm not mistaken, there are still more ADN's than BSN's, and this will continue due to the difficulty in getting into a nursing program. I know hospitals want to hire only BSN's but can't find enough nurses to do that. And the BSN's I know plan to get into management or continue on to NP. They want to pay their dues as a floor nurse and move on.
While I don't appreciate the underlying hostility of Brandon's post, I do agree with one of the key points. We should establish separate licensure for BSN's and ADN/Diploma grads. With separate licenses and separate scopes of practice, the differencesbetween the two would be more clear. People fall back on the "same NCLEX" argument to justify the non-support of higher education all to easily. It's a lazy argument, but one that holds
enough weight for people who don't
want to advance their education or support the education of others. We should eliminate it by developing a separate NCLEX.
Well, I'm hostile because the implication of many pro-BSNs here is that the existence of ADNs who share the same license are somehow an embarrassment and preventing them from being takenseriously. If that's how they feel about ADNs, how do they feel about LPNs?
The crux of the ADN vs BSN debate
shouldn't be who's "preventing" who from achieving their professional goals. I take exception to the idea of the BSN being the "entry to practice" as a nurse. This would imply that anything less doesn't qualify to use the title "nurse". BSN should be the entry point to BSN nursing. ADN should be the entry point to *that* level of nursing. PN school is the entry point to practical nursing.
There's nothing wrong with having multiple tiers of nursing. Is it really *that* confusing? Is it really *that* much a blow to a BSN's ego to share the title "nurse" with lower licenses? But I do maintain each educational path must have it's own licensure and SOP unique to it.
Cold Stethoscope
130 Posts
I have a non-nursing B.S. degree, which gets you out of some distribution requirements in an undergraduate nursing program, but means nothing once you're in practice (though it can be of some help in certain research jobs). The "junk courses" you take are designed to make you a more well-rounded person, a better critical thinker, and adept at gathering and consuming information in a coherent way.
I don't know that most BSN programs use their hours to the most constructive extent possible, but no one will be hurt by taking ethics and statistics courses. An ADN holder is not well-equipped to really understand (e.g., determine the validity of its methodology) a research paper. The conclusion is nice, but it's often full of wishful thinking.
And as the poster above says, as a team leader, as many RNs are, learning some management skills is advantageous.
Finally, any bachelor degree will put you ahead of an ASN for most non-nursing jobs. To the people who are certain they don't want to continue with their education: Are you also certain that you want to remain as a patient care RN until you retire?
I'll reiterate: I'm not saying that most BSN programs fulfill their purpose. But I'm not saying that they don't. :)