Oregon equal pay for equal work law has been signed into law in an independent practice state with NP's and PA's getting paid FULL amount from private insurance. This means that a new grad NP's will be paid the same amount as an attending family physician and psychiatrist and also have the same rights and scope of practice as a family physician and psychiatrist.
With the tremendous push for equal pay and for autonomy for PA and NP, is there any reason for medical students to want to go into primary care anymore? I guess my question is, it seems so bizarre that someone would put themselves through hell when they could become a competent provider through the NP route or PA route.
So do you think with these new laws, PA's and NP's will ultimately lead primary care? will these laws drive away medical students from primary care? Is it financially reasonable for a medical student to become a family physician in an equal pay state?
As an sNP, I'm incredibly thrilled and happy at how much progress our profession has made. However, I also understand how some medical students hoping to go into family medicine can feel cheated and grumpy about it. What are ya'll thoughts?
Ask for your money back. I took a refresher A&P course before grad school at a cheap local community college and we were tested out on all of the bones and boney landmarks and every muscle and insertion and origin.
Actually, I did! That didn't go over too well with the Chancellor and I received a nasty certified letter from the university attorney. But for real tho. I deserve my money back!
that is really too bad. Your BSN institution did you a disservice. When I entered into NP education my advanced A&P and physical assessment courses contained a mix of NP and med students...in other words, NP students took the same course as a med student. I also took Biochem...not on your everyday NP curriculum. The only think I did not do was gross anatomy. This was on top of what I had already accomplished in my BSN program, plus I had the advantage of having touched a patient (unlike med students). I feel I have an exceptional understanding of anatomy, physiology, physical assessment, pharm, and differential diagnosis. Add to that the 15 years of critical care in cardiology, and my 5 years as an acute care NP and I can run circles around many physicians. Please do not underestimate the education of nurses everywhere based on your personal experience. Sounds like you got a raw deal, indeed, from my perspective.
So you can really run circles around a cardiologist with 15 years of experience? As if nursing experience and physician experience are the same. Don't think so. Nursing experience is totally different. I see that as a good thing. My nursing experience has helped me with critical thinking skills, and time management. It has helped me learn how to treat the whole person and not just the disease. But my 10 years of nursing experience in no way shape or form qualifies me to be a physician. NP's significantly over value experience and it is very misleading.
So you can really run circles around a cardiologist with 15 years of experience? As if nursing experience and physician experience are the same. Don't think so. Nursing experience is totally different. I see that as a good thing. My nursing experience has helped me with critical thinking skills, and time management. It has helped me learn how to treat the whole person and not just the disease. But my 10 years of nursing experience in no way shape or form qualifies me to be a physician. NP's significantly over value experience and it is very misleading.
There is a difference though in that you don't have any experience in the provider role, the poster your quoted has 5 years, more direct patient experience as a provider than a newly minted IM physician.
Not sure where you work or what general family practice physician is. It sounds like you are combing general practitioner and family practice. For the record a family medicine is a three year residency according to ACGME. Also the med students we work with are third year. Fourth year is for preparatory rotations interviews. Many med schools are now starting clinical rotations in the second year to help med students get the all important letters for residency apps so most med students have 2 years of full time clinical experience before residency. As far as family medicine residents, their rotations are pretty specific to family medicine and usually total around 7500 hours.
Yes! And some med schools and PA schools are requiring a certain amount of healthcare hours for admission. They want people coming in with medical experience. I know someone with a Masters in Chemistry working as a CNA to fullfill this requirement for med school admission since she was rejected three times. They said she needed direct patient care experience. I don't understand why NP's claim their education is equivalent when it is clearly not.
Most med schools have MS3 spending about half their time in clerkships (what they call clinicals) and most of the MS4 time is in clinicals.
PGY1 or internship year is focused on all areas of care, the next two years are in specialty.
Guess what, that intern spent as many hours in family practice in their PGY1 year as you spent in your entire DNP program clinicals, plus another 3,000 or so hours getting a broad overview of medicine including OBGYN, oncology, surgery, emergency, and hospital medicine. Then they spent two more residency years (~6,000 additional hours) exclusively in family practice.
You will only end up looking the fool if you try to minimize medical education. I suggest you stick to claiming it is overboard.
You don't have any experience in the provider role, the poster your quoted has 5 years, more direct patient experience as a provider than a newly minted IM physician.
Are you so sure about that? Research the requirements for medical school. Research medical school education. I have a friend in med school right now. He does way more clinical hours than I ever did. His med school starts rotations 2nd year. They are also required to do clinic work and medical mission trips. This is unpaid volunteer medical work outside of normal educational clinical hours. So how do you figure you can run circles around an MD? I think most of you don't fully understand the rigor of medical school education.
I don't understand why NP's claim their education is equivalent when it is clearly not.
Please, cite a post that says the education is equivalent. What has been said (and is backed by a tremendous amount of data) is that outcomes are equivalent.
I don't utilize NPs for either myself or my family although I do know a few NPs and a few PAs who I think are excellent. That said I'm extremely picky about the MDs we see also and am thankful I'm in this industry so I have a better chance of sifting out the kitty from the litter.
Wait so you're an NP and you refuse to see midlevels for yourself/family? Seriously? I can't.
Are you so sure about that? Research the requirements for medical school. Research medical school education. I have a friend in med school right now. He does way more clinical hours than I ever did. His med school starts rotations 2nd year. They are also required to do clinic work and medical mission trips. This is unpaid volunteer medical work outside of normal educational clinical hours. So how do you figure you can run circles around an MD? I think most of you don't fully understand the rigor of medical school education.
I have been directly involved in medical education for a number of years. I have a fairly good working knowledge of both didactic and clinical education in medicine. While that may not be the same as having a friend who is in medical school, I can say that an experienced NP can work circles around a PGY1 and the data has demonstrated comparable outcomes with PGY3+.
I have been directly involved in medical education for a number of years. I have a fairly good working knowledge of both didactic and clinical education in medicine. While that may not be the same as having a friend who is in medical school, I can say that an experienced NP can work circles around a PGY1 and the data has demonstrated comparable outcomes with PGY3+.
Please cite your sources for these outcomes. Which medical school do you work with? I don't think they will be too please to see you posting on a public forum that an experienced NP can run circles around a PGY1. Let alone advocating for MD's to leave primary care. Further, what do you mean run circles? Sure NP's may have better time management skills and maybe they can handle the work flow better due to their bedside nursing experience. But sit down with those PGY1's and you will find that they are incredible intelligent, critically thinking minds. They may need some assistance at first with work flow/work demands but I've found that most PGY2 can run circles around an experienced NP. I have experience at one of the top teaching hospitals in the country so maybe my perspective varies.
Please, cite a post that says the education is equivalent. What has been said (and is backed by a tremendous amount of data) is that outcomes are equivalent.
There are definitely several threads on allnurses where NP's claim the education is equivalent.
HBrnGirl
27 Posts
Actually, I did! That didn't go over too well with the Chancellor and I received a nasty certified letter from the university attorney. But for real tho. I deserve my money back!