The Circumcision Discussion

[jmspeach]

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My husband says yes, it's better medically in the long run. My gpa who just turned 70 had to have a circ. due to endless complications lately.

As nurses in this area, is the medication that they use good? And what are some questions to ask my Dr. about it. I already know that my hospital i'll be at uses a med. when they perform it, I"m just wondering what you all think.

Thanks

Jen :)

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

I am far from a tree-hugger, but circ is not necessary. My son is intact and so far at 2 1/2 yo has had zero problem. Neither has his 34-yo intact father. I have a lot of problems with routine circ, and here they are (in no particular order).

1) People who would not dream of sending their little girls to have even the smallest cut made in their labia under local anesthesia in sterile conditions, rightly calling it child abuse, those same folks will routinely send their little boys off to have their genitalia cut. What is the difference? A baby is a baby, and all babies feel pain.

2) The locker room argument is, I think, quickly fading. There is plenty of intact company for intact boys. And really, what message am I sending my son having him circumcised just to fit in? I wouldn't tattoo him just because everybody else does, and I won't have him circed for the same reason.

3) The 'looking like Daddy' thing was not an issue for us, but I wonder if it's not daddies who feel funny looking different than their sons rather than sons feeling funny looking different than Daddy. The hangups tend to be ours, not our children's. Like someone else said, "Daddy had a surgery that you don't need" should be enough.

4) Hygiene -- ok, either way you have to wash it, right? Is it really so difficult to retract a foreskin, wash & rinse under it, and put it back? My preschooler can do it (and does).

5) The actual number of people needing to be circed as adults is pretty darn low. Most of those problems are related to improper care such as infections & adhesions. You get the occasional phimosis/paraphimosis but that's not enough to make me buy into circing.

Medicaid doesn't pay for circ in our state anymore, I don't know about other states. But it amazes me how many people will still shell out some big bucks for a small piece of foreskin that does actually serve a purpose!

[lovemyjob]

I am far from a tree-hugger, but circ is not necessary. My son is intact and so far at 2 1/2 yo has had zero problem. Neither has his 34-yo intact father. I have a lot of problems with routine circ, and here they are (in no particular order).

1) People who would not dream of sending their little girls to have even the smallest cut made in their labia under local anesthesia in sterile conditions, rightly calling it child abuse, those same folks will routinely send their little boys off to have their genitalia cut. What is the difference? A baby is a baby, and all babies feel pain.

2) The locker room argument is, I think, quickly fading. There is plenty of intact company for intact boys. And really, what message am I sending my son having him circumcised just to fit in? I wouldn't tattoo him just because everybody else does, and I won't have him circed for the same reason.

3) The 'looking like Daddy' thing was not an issue for us, but I wonder if it's not daddies who feel funny looking different than their sons rather than sons feeling funny looking different than Daddy. The hangups tend to be ours, not our children's. Like someone else said, "Daddy had a surgery that you don't need" should be enough.

4) Hygiene -- ok, either way you have to wash it, right? Is it really so difficult to retract a foreskin, wash & rinse under it, and put it back? My preschooler can do it (and does).

5) The actual number of people needing to be circed as adults is pretty darn low. Most of those problems are related to improper care such as infections & adhesions. You get the occasional phimosis/paraphimosis but that's not enough to make me buy into circing.

Medicaid doesn't pay for circ in our state anymore, I don't know about other states. But it amazes me how many people will still shell out some big bucks for a small piece of foreskin that does actually serve a purpose!

Amen.

[LoveMyBugs, BSN, CNA, RN]

I have two boys who are intact, the big deciding factor for me was, my insurance would not cover it not even a portion of it. My insurance considered it cosmetic. I feel that the foreskin is there for a reason, not only that there are nerve endings in there take it away and take away some enjoyment later on in life.

The only problems my sons have had is pulling the foreskin down initially, because it was somewhat painful at first to pull down and clean, but they got over it. It is definitely a personal choice, while my two sons are not, my nephew is.

In most other countries cri is not as popular as it is in the US and even here it is becoming less routine.

[maryloufu]

I watched one circumcision in nursing school. He started screaming when the doc undressed him- so it was hard to determine a difference when the procedure began. He stopped screaming when he was bundled back up and placed in his little isolette. :zzzzz

I am very glad I had all girls because I have never liked the idea of circumcisions- but I was going to let my husband decide after we discussed it because he has ahem- more experience with this particular issue.

[sahmof2]

I don't know what the doc gave my son or if anything, but I was told that my son slept through the whole thing. He also was asleep when he was brought back to me. He slept through getting dressed up for his pictures as soon as he got back and through the pictures. I had a c-section so I had to stay a few days in the hospital and we had a hard time waking him to get him to eat a few times. Even now as a 4 year old he still loves to sleep.

[crissrn27, RN]

I am far from a tree-hugger, but circ is not necessary. My son is intact and so far at 2 1/2 yo has had zero problem. Neither has his 34-yo intact father. I have a lot of problems with routine circ, and here they are (in no particular order).

1) People who would not dream of sending their little girls to have even the smallest cut made in their labia under local anesthesia in sterile conditions, rightly calling it child abuse, those same folks will routinely send their little boys off to have their genitalia cut. What is the difference? A baby is a baby, and all babies feel pain.

2) The locker room argument is, I think, quickly fading. There is plenty of intact company for intact boys. And really, what message am I sending my son having him circumcised just to fit in? I wouldn't tattoo him just because everybody else does, and I won't have him circed for the same reason.

3) The 'looking like Daddy' thing was not an issue for us, but I wonder if it's not daddies who feel funny looking different than their sons rather than sons feeling funny looking different than Daddy. The hangups tend to be ours, not our children's. Like someone else said, "Daddy had a surgery that you don't need" should be enough.

4) Hygiene -- ok, either way you have to wash it, right? Is it really so difficult to retract a foreskin, wash & rinse under it, and put it back? My preschooler can do it (and does).

5) The actual number of people needing to be circed as adults is pretty darn low. Most of those problems are related to improper care such as infections & adhesions. You get the occasional phimosis/paraphimosis but that's not enough to make me buy into circing.

Medicaid doesn't pay for circ in our state anymore, I don't know about other states. But it amazes me how many people will still shell out some big bucks for a small piece of foreskin that does actually serve a purpose!

Right on, man! ok, lol, had to do it! Circs are not needed routinely. period. None of the docs I have seen do any kind of pain control, besides sweetez........nothing...at...all. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have surgery with no pain control before, during, or after. And, as Arwen said, we wouldn't send our girls off to have part of their labia removed but we do this to boys all the time. You would be amazed how many Medicaid moms come in asking for extra formula, diapers, etc, because they can't afford it, but they can come up with that 200$ for the circ. WTH?? I don't get it. I have 2 sons, born before I knew any better, and my husband demanded we circ them. #1 got infected before leaving the hospital, ended up with urology visits, etc to correct. #2 has such short foreskin that surgery might be in his future, if he can't, umm, correct it himself (stretching). I would never, never circ another boy, if I have another. I don't care what my hubby says, I know better now.

Another thing our docs don't do is educate. I really feel like if they would say, "well, I can do it for you, but it really isn't necessary" lots of parents would say. "Oh, it isn't, never mind then". They are making 200$ that goes straight into their pockets, they don't want circs to stop, at least at my hospital.

[crissrn27, RN]

As a side note - picture putting emla on a small moving target and then getting a tegaderm over it - that's one for americas funniest home videos:lol2:

Please, please, stop trying to use that stupid tegaderm for emla on the member. It is impossible! Do this, and the baby will have better pain control. Put the emla in a baby bottle nipple, (with the ring removed, of course) and slip the nipple over the member. Apply the diaper snuggly over the nipple, so that it stays in place. This works great! Cream stays where it is supposed to, member gets (hopefully) numb, and no fighting with tegaderm!

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

You would be amazed how many Medicaid moms come in asking for extra formula, diapers, etc, because they can't afford it, but they can come up with that 200$ for the circ. WTH?? quote]

Only $200? Man, where I am it's $673. I think it's so high due to the people who want it even though Medicaid won't pay for it but have absolutely no plans to pay it back, either. Some hospitals ask you to pay up front, or at least half before you do it.

I think docs doing education is a big part of it too. Our docs don't educate either, and why would they? They make an insane amount of money for 5-10min of work.

I will try to post the link where I originally found this, but I've read that it is illegal to circumcise boys in Finland for nonmedical, nonreligious reasons. I don't think all the guys in Finland have rotting memberes...

[rnin02]

My husband is not circumcised and has never had a problem...no infections, hygiene issues are non exisistent. He was never talked about in the locker room or anything like that. Personally, we will never circ any boys we may have. But it is a personal decision...any man who had it done as a baby can't remember the procedure or what life was like before the circ, so how can they give an informed opinion on whether they would have wanted it done or not? Opinion is not quite the right word...the point I'm trying to make is that my husband is happy being "uncut" and others are happy being "cut"...they don't know how they would have felt if the circ was or was not done...so its difficult to ask them how they would feel. Sorry, its 3am, I hope that made sense to someone!

[justme1972]

When I was in nursing school when I did my OB rotation I remember them doing a circumcision. They brought the poor little baby in the nursery and I remember them taking out this board and strapping the little guy to it. I couldn't watch but I remember the screaming.

This happens to be the hospital where I will deliver. I think my husband wants the baby to be circumcised but he is concerned about the pain as well.

Do they generally use anesthetic? Do most people opt out of circumcision anymore, at least at the hospital?

I am a firm circumcision believer (I won't get into the reasons here, b/c I don't want to start a circumcision debate). My son is circumcised.

Our decision had nothing to do with him "looking like Dad". I don't think it makes any difference if a son does or not...that's like saying a son will develop a complex if he grows up without a father...if he has a strong mother he'll be just fine.

However, there is no way I would have allowed my son to be strapped to a board and be "cut" without any type of pre- and post-circ pain relief. No way, no how.

They actually performed this procedure on my son in the room with me at the hospital. I wanted to be able to breast feed him right after, so they did it right before he was due to feed. The original doc did circs "cold turkey" and I told the staff to find me another doctor. One came in, put some cream on his member and came back 10 minutes later and did the procedure. My son cried more for his Hep shot than he did the circ. He was upset, but not screaming bloody murder. I nursed him immediately and he went right to sleep.

They kept another cream on the site (can't remember what it was), for several days until it healed.

That was our experience, and I think it turned out the best it could have.

The only problem was one nurse that came in because the next day, my son wasn't eating well. This nurse said, "Well, if you had just had major surgery you probably wouldn't eat either." in a very sarcastic tone. She was obviously anti-circ.

I made sure I didn't see her again.

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

The only problem was one nurse that came in because the next day, my son wasn't eating well. This nurse said, "Well, if you had just had major surgery you probably wouldn't eat either." in a very sarcastic tone. She was obviously anti-circ.

I am sorry she said that to you in that way. But I have seen it over and over in my short years as a nurse. Some babies who are BFing wonderfully, then get circed fall to pieces shortly thereafter and it takes a lot of time & work to get them back to where they were before. It has been known to happen. I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying that it's a fairly common thing, common enough that I warn moms that it might happen before they send baby for his circ.

[analee23]

I know this is random and may be a bit :offtopic: But, just thought I'd share.

The other day we had two kiddos come into my ER (about 2 hrs. apart) with foreskin entrapment in the mesh lining of their swimming suits! It was a bit odd, and scared the little boys, but I must say, both did very well with it. Never thought that could happen, but there it be! Both kiddos said it didn't hurt unless someone touched the entraped part of their foreskin.

Just a lil bit odd... not saying they should be circ'd, just saying a lil weird that that could happen.