Texas is the case study for system implosion

"illegal immigrants account for 21% of the system's caseload..."

'nuff said.....:flmngmd:

i was addressing viking's original post. the quote was from his article.

except that the data available from rand, commonwealth fund and brookings all point to immigrants using health services at an overall lower rate.

the only question is how much we owe our undocumented immigrant workers. first, those who do not remain to enjoy the benefits of old age in america will have to be reimbursed for their contributions to medicare and social security, and here i quote the website of the san diego aclu:

undocumented immigrants annually pay an estimated $7 billion more than they take out into social security, and $1.5 billion more into medicare.... a study by the national academy of sciences also found that tax payments generated by immigrants outweighed any costs associated with services used by immigrants.

second, someone is going to have to calculate what is owed to "illegals" for wages withheld by unscrupulous employers: the homeowner who tells his or her domestic worker that the wage is actually several hundred dollars a month less than she had been promised, and that the homeowner will be "holding" it for her. or the landscaping service that stiffs its undocumented workers for their labor. who's the "illegal" here?

at http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070625/ehrenreich .

the solution really is to develop a funding system for health care that gets everyone paying into the system. the european countries use a combination of vat and income taxes to fund their systems which seems to stabilize their financing quite well. the larger issue is that when we have significant numbers of under and uninsureds that drives costs up for everyone.

Hey--it was a quote.....21% of CASELOAD, not population!

And that is why the private insurance system is imploding. (I am really afraid that it will take the health care system with it as well as the rest of the economy...)

I am a nurse with no insurance-well, I do have the VA here in the US and thanks to a protective presence that has held it hand over me my entire life, I am fortunate enough to be married to a German, so if I would get really sick I can go to Germany, a country the size of Texas, that is able to take care of me because my own country cannot.

I don't claim to be an 'expert' on health care politics but I was the recipient of a vicious 'shafting' by the Department of Health and Human Service which finally freed my mind for the 'propaganda' we are all fed enough so that I can view some of the things that I personally see going on through the eyes of that old adage "if it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck it must be...", I'm sure many of you remember this old saying.

I work PRN is a hospital in a 'sanctuary' city (i.e., if the illegal alien makes it there they are home free because no one can do anything to them. Houston is such a city.

Where I work, not Houston, we frequently get illegal aliens. These people come in via the ER and are often very sick by the time they get to the Wards. Some leave as soon as they can get on their feet because they have to go to their little minimum wage or less job because they are supporting...who knows how many people. Some stay, and run up bills that would cost me my home and any and every thing I have ever worked for.

The way I see it, these people are NOT a determent to the 'health care industry' that has taken over our society. People like me, and I am sure most of you, are used to calculating 'cost' based on that old 'middle class ethic' that was the rule in this country for so much of it's history, that include such old fashioned notions as "pay your own bills', or "I pay for insurance so my insurance company should pay for me if I get sick", or, "these people who are using the health care system who can't pay are costing the hospitals and country money".

Today, the 'corporations' and their 'government regulator partners' have gotten the economics of health care figure out to where "they" (and by "they" I mean the companies that produce health care products used in the hospitals- IV tubings, chuxs, needles syringes, dressings and so on, and the companies that produce the drugs, plus the 'executive management' of health care corporations, and others) come out on top, no matter who pays.

Simply put, the hospitals are not left 'holding the bag' for the illegal alien health care cost. They do get reimbursed, either by something like an 'indigent fund', (paid for by taxpayers), or money that hospitals get back from the federal government for providing such and such a percentage of 'charity' care (your taxes at work again), and other means.

Now, look at the winners and the losers in this scenario. The hospital has not lost. The corporations that produce the products needed to provide health care have not lost. The 'employers' of the illegal alien have not lost, because they still have the 'cheap labor' service of, in many cases, especially in the construction trades, very skilled labor which they can treat and pay, pretty much as they chose. The illegal alien has not lost, because they have received health care and it has not cost them a dime. These are the 'winners'. I will leave it to your to figure out the 'losers'.

In the above case of the person who paid for insurance and then lost it because (gasp) he had the nerve to go and seek treatment for a problem that might have made him something besides a premium paying wage slave, guess what, the private insurance company has already calculated that maybe this person will actually cost them money, rather than just sending them a preimum check every month. They are not stupid (financially speaking), they are going to nip this problem in the bud right away. Get rid of the guy!

Now, if this poor man still needs health care he will wander into the no mans land of -go to the hospital if he has to, receive care (all the above mentioned corporate players will profit by providing this care to him), and now, since he is a traceable citizen with assets, another section of the 'system buzzards' will start circling, figuring out the best way to divest him of everything he owns. In the end, if he has nothing left, guess what, he will still receive health care, and the above mentioned corporate players will still profit, now his health care will be funded by YOU and ME.

You don't want to be so cold, fellow taxpayer, as to deny poor people health care do you?

The answer to this mess? I hope someone can figure it out. I do want to say that when I worked in Germany I payed a LOT of taxes. BUT, I, personally, not just the corporations got something back for my taxes. Their system is trying to become more like ours, and the German people are not happy about it. It is, as usual, an interesting time to be an observer of humans and their antics.

There is no law stating that in a "sanctuary" city that nothing will be done to illegal aliens. we are rounding them up here in houston all the time and arresting them and deporting them as we should.

P.S. before anyone calls this racist or such my wife is a LEGAL alien here and my kids are dual nationals.

Then I guess I don't understand the term 'sanctuary city'.

I do know that in Richmond and Rosenburg, outside of Houston the illegal aliens gather in their groups like they always have; the plumbers here, the carpenters there and so on. If the contractor wants help for the day they just go to the group early in the morning and pick up what ever labor is needed.

However, as far as health care is concerned, I guess the point I was trying to make is that the powers that be have arranged that these people are NOT a determent to the system, the way I see it. The illegals get health care, and the employers get labor, and don't have to worry about paying for the health care for this cheap labor. The hospitals and insurance companies continue to churn out the profits, which is good for the economy, everyone working for the hospitals get paid, the suppliers get paid, and the money gets circulated in the economy. I know that I get paid the same whatever the nationality and legal status is of the patients I take care of. The money to pay these hospital costs for care for indigents does come from somewhere.

The way i see it, the whole question of health care and illegal aliens is a 'red herring' that leads one away from questions such as that raised by the man who paid $750.00 a month for health care and then when he went to actually use this health insurance was thrown out of his insurance system.

Maybe the man who had to give up his dream of starting his own business because the health care costs were prohibitive to him was reaching too high, I don't know. I do know that I was born in Texas and I never had health care insurance in my little waitress or factory or laundry jobs until I graduated from nursing school and went into the service.

I also know that when I married and moved to Germany in the early eighties, the first thing I noticed were all those healthy looking older people walking around. It just seems to me that a born American should be able to have health care via some kind of system, I don't know what it should be. I just wonder what options others think would work. The mention of a Value Added Tax was interesting, however this is a an added tax on the consumer of goods, maybe this would spread the cost around to all sectors, legal and illegal.

I am also married to a legal alien. I don't know why that makes a statement about race one way or the other, I certainly don't see anything in your post as being 'racist'.

I work for an insurance company that shall remain unmentioned. The public has no idea the amount of infrastructure that goes into every single insurance company and insurance contract from each and every business that offers medical insurance to its employees.

These funds could easily pay for unversal health coverage for every American in this country!

Lindarn, RN,BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington